Football 2011-2012

[The Nal]

Did you watch the City game Nal?

Edited September 22, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

True, but he was quite young at the time. He's only 30 now, and made the WC 2002 squad, so only about 20-21 when started for England.

Yep .... but I wouldn't want him playing for England if he put in the sorts of performances he did on those worse occasions, and who knows for sure if that was only his age?

He needs to prove himself as being good enough for his club team before anyone starts thinking of him for England, and then he needs to prove himself as good enough via his club for England, and then he needs to ensure he takes that level of performance onto the pitch for England.

The first two of those he'll probably do (if he stays fit of course), but I'm not convinced as yet from his previous outings that he'll deliver the third consistently enough - tho the only way anyone gets to find out is by playing him of course.

[ralph250]

Didn't watch it mate no. Was watching Season 5 of Quantum Leap all evening. Meant to catch the highlights on Sky Sports News at midnight but then Sam leaped into his great-grandfather during the civil war so that threw a spanner in the works football wise.

[pink_triangle]

In my opinion Hargreaves was never as bad as the media claimed before the world cup when they did the typical "he doesnt play in the premiership, he cant be any good thing". However after the world cup when they then tried to claim he was the best defensive midfielder in the world, they were also going a bit ott.

[jump]

In my opinion Hargreaves was never as bad as the media claimed before the world cup when they did the typical "he doesnt play in the premiership, he cant be any good thing". However after the world cup when they then tried to claim he was the best defensive midfielder in the world, they were also going a bit ott.

Edited September 22, 2011 by jump

[TheGayTent]

Nothing to do with his excellent goal ratio for England then?

[jump]

Nothing to do with his excellent goal ratio for England then?

[Jaybles]

Happy for Hargreaves, the lad nearly completely destroyed his knee's and his football career playing through injuries and pain for Utd. That is how desperate he was to play on the big stage for utd.

Hopefully he can stay fit and have a run of games. He deserves a turn of fortune.

Cracker of a goal too!!

[Benj]

So it all became clear last night: Kenny plans to play a 4-1-4-1 formation, in some games at least.

I guess that that formation might see something a little better from Carroll, and it certainly has this summer's signings making a little more sense.

[eFestivals]

That, or he's quickly trying to formulate a plan b

Possible I guess.

But those buys always seemed a bit odd for a 4-4-2, so I reckon it's what he's always had in mind for some games if not all. All games would probably be a bit difficult, cos as far as I'm aware they've really only one player (Lucas) who's suitable to sit between the defenders and midfield.

Whether it works out as it seems he's hoping is of course another matter.

[strummer77]

It was before that, it was when he was playing for Liverpool as a lone striker and was on a long drought (I think it was 24 hours without a goal?) and the 1st goal he did score was an own goal and they had to go to appeal to let him have his name attached to it.

[The Nal]

That, or he's quickly trying to formulate a plan b

[strummer77]

I think that could be it. Nothing wrong there though.

Liverpool fans in work were far from happy with last night on all levels.

Is that the same across the board?

[The Nal]

Not really. Cup game with weakened side against quality oposition. Two goals and hit woodwork three times. Our captain back.

Thing I'm not happy with is not putting the game to bed a lot sooner.

[strummer77]

Cool. Good to see Gerrard back. Id say he is raring to go!

[pink_triangle]

So Ranieri is the new inter manager. He seems to be like sven in terms of landing on his feet, its a good job for a manager with only a couple of cups to his name. Its funny how people talk about the english managerial merry go round, the itallian league is much worse!

[The Nal]

Yeah and Owen Hargreaves. Been a tough period for the both of them.

[eFestivals]

Hargreaves stock has just plummeted, WAY down. Going on about being a guinea pig at Old Trafford, saying Fergie knew he wasn't fit for the game he did his hammer after 5 minutes but played him anyway.

Nice Owen, Utd pay your medical bills for 3 years, send you to the top surgeon in the world multiple times and then you slate them after joining City!

so how long have Utd been perfection then?

Fergie's an arrogant sod, so I could certainly see something like that happening. Much the same happened around Rooney around a year ago (tho that was the reverse of this, wasn't it?).

But I do think that Hargreaves has only succeeded in making himself look stupid by saying this, because if he knew he wasn't fit, why the fuck did he agree to play? No one forced him onto the field.

[ralph250]

Hargreaves stock has just plummeted, WAY down. Going on about being a guinea pig at Old Trafford, saying Fergie knew he wasn't fit for the game he did his hammer after 5 minutes but played him anyway.

Nice Owen, Utd pay your medical bills for 3 years, send you to the top surgeon in the world multiple times and then you slate them after joining City!

Edited September 23, 2011 by ralph250

[ralph250]

so how long have Utd been perfection then?

Fergie's an arrogant sod, so I could certainly see something like that happening. Much the same happened around Rooney around a year ago (tho that was the reverse of this, wasn't it?).

But I do think that Hargreaves has only succeeded in making himself look stupid by saying this, because if he knew he wasn't fit, why the fuck did he agree to play? No one forced him onto the field.

[ralph250]

Yesterday I wrote an article about how Manchester United supporters were struggling to know how they should feel about Owen Hargreaves. Most were torn between wishing him well and not wanting him to do well for his new club because that new club happened to be Manchester City.

Many will now have clearer feelings.

Daniel Taylor of The Guardian had a chat with the midfielder following his successful comeback and although the write up is anything but sensationalist it’s clear what the highlighted points will be. Hargreaves is attaching much of the blame for his injury hell to Manchester United, we can go through all the nuances and suggestions but to cut to the point that’s his viewpoint.

In his words he was treated like a guinea pig, an experimental pin cushion for injections if you like. United had this player they paid £17m for and were guessing at what to do with him.

"You'd have to ask them. There were a few crucial points. We treated it and it got significantly worse through the injections. That obviously had a huge impact. Basically, I was left to pick up the pieces, which was incredibly frustrating.

"They said it would help and that I wouldn't have any side effects. That obviously wasn't the case and if I'd known I could have had a reaction like that I wouldn't have done it. It was a s*** position to be in, to be honest. I'm not a guy who wants to b**** and complain. I was trying to make the most of it, but it deteriorated over the season and we had to do these injections. My knee, my tendon, was never the same."

For me, there’s a lot that doesn’t quite add up here. He knew he had knee problems before he joined Manchester United, which of course cannot be down to the medical staff at Carrington, Hargreaves seems to have a need to paint himself as the wronged party throughout all of this. Now, he has a point if he’s accusing lady luck but he must accept that when he left Bayern he had injury issues and it’s a surprise that a player often labelled as being intelligent didn’t do any research on his injuries until well into his stay in England.

Hargreaves didn’t roll up without a problem, he was not bought as a lab rat for experimental use and had long standing injury issues already, which presents the question as to why he was bought in the first place, another issue entirely.

There seems to be an element of self delusion in the belief that injections could destroy his knees, let’s not forget renowned surgeon Richard Steadman said his knees were the worst he’d seen – are we supposed to believe this is down to injections? Injections of glucose to encourage the growth of new fibres? Perhaps the injections were guilty of no more than not being able to facilitate the growth needed, leading the surgeon to highlight the amount of dead tissue with the knees. It’s worth noting this wasn’t the first treatment that had failed to rid Hargreaves of his long term problem.

This isn’t his only criticism of Manchester United, the player says in so many words that he was forced to play his doomed comeback game against Wolves despite being injured "I started that game with two muscle injuries but I should never have been in that position to begin with. I was just going to try to get through 45 minutes because that would have been a start. But I didn't even last five. I wasn't surprised. I'd said to them that I had a hamstring problem, which I obviously did.”

Less than a month ago, Hargreaves did an interview with the Daily Mail in which he said “I'm chasing back Chris Smalling and I feel my hamstring go. I'm obviously compensating because of the calf. And I'm thinking, "What the f***?" I'm just sitting there on the pitch.” These comments were about the training session on the Friday before the Wolves game.

So Hargreaves is saying that he did his hamstring the day before a game he was forced to start in. This is where it gets unbelievable for me. A Premier League player does his hamstring on a Friday yet gets through the warm up and is forced to play on the Saturday, there’s no sense in that. It wouldn’t help the player or, more importantly, the team so why would a manager as experienced as Sir Alex Ferguson force a player with two significant and debilitating injuries to play?

I went back to look at comments made at the time and found this from the Manchester United manager "This hamstring injury is a real kick in the teeth. He was doing so well in training before the Wolves game. He was absolutely superb. There were no qualms whatsoever about putting him in, even though he had only trained for nine days."

"We were confident enough to play him but unfortunately it has proved to be a disappointment for us. If he had realised early enough and come off before he had done any more damage, it could have been three to four weeks. But it is a complete tear."

There’s nothing adding up here. The manager, who Hargreaves suggests played him even though he was injured, is rueful the player didn’t feel his hamstring earlier so he could come off.

Somebody isn’t being entirely honest so who is it? Well let’s look at some more comments from the interview with Daniel Taylor "A change of scenery, sadly enough, was essential. The guys here [City's medical staff] have been great so far. I've been here three weeks and you can already see the difference. I knew it was all there. It was just a matter of doing things right."

That last bit is needlessly cutting, I just don’t understand why he has said these things. On one hand he says he needed a change of scenery yet less than a month ago he claimed he offered to play for free just to stay at knee-destroyers United. On one hand he says the City staff have made all the difference and got him back but less than a month ago, before he’d met any of them, he claimed he’d play 40 games this season and blow people away.

A Sky Sports News presenter commented this morning "United did all they could to get Hargreaves fit so it's a shame that after one hour of one game he chooses to criticise them." Only Owen Hargreaves knows why he has.

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/hargreaves-lights-blue-touch-paper

[The Nal]

But I do think that Hargreaves has only succeeded in making himself look stupid by saying this, because if he knew he wasn't fit, why the fuck did he agree to play? No one forced him onto the field.

Edited September 23, 2011 by The Nal

[ralph250]

Exactly. "I'm not fit boss, I won't last five minutes". Doubt Fergie would've played him?! Unless Fergie liked wasting subs and medical bills for a laugh?

Fergie said Utd are to release a statement about it later.

"Do you think we would be successful if they were not 100% brilliant? Our doctor and his five physios are fantastic - that is my opinion and that is more important than what anyone else has to say about it."

[The Nal]

This. IIRC it was a shock when he was selected. Fergie hadn't indicated (say in the presser the day before) that he was going to start. There were only rumours that he might be in contention an hour before kick-off, so not like there was an expectation built up; that Hargreaves could feel embarrassing if having to pull out through injury. Fair enough he might've felt that once already announced in the lineup an hour to kick-off, doesn't want to be perceived as a sick-note, but there was ample time between his last training session and kick-off to inform Fergie if not fit.

[eFestivals]

Utds medical staff are one of the most respected in the game.

while that might well be true, there's a well-documented history of similar-skilled people operating one idea of how to keep players fit which might not suit all players.

One example I can think of is Gerrard when he was much younger, who had continual back problems until they developed a different training plan for him.

I read something very similar recently for another player too - can't remember who now, but it might have been Ledley King or Woodgate, tho I can't be sure.

So it might be the case that despite their skills those medical staff stuffed up.

Typical City player.

PMSL - any excuse.