Football 2010-2011

[j...rox]

Barca need to be counter attacked and quickly. This is why Madrid did so well against them until the first farcical Champions League tie. Carrick is so very crucial for them and needs to be as good if not better than Ramsey was for United to have any chance. 4-4-2 will work fine against them assuming Giggs and Valencia can drop narrower and of course Rooney dropping back if Barca break out.

[olliet101]

I wouldn't say Carrick is essential, more Fletcher. It's such a shame he got injured and has lost a lot of weight as a result because he'd be perfect playing that Pepe role in front of the defence to restrict Barcelona's attacking options. However, he'd be a lot more suited to that role than Carrick.

[Jaybles]

I wouldn't say Carrick is essential, more Fletcher. It's such a shame he got injured and has lost a lot of weight as a result because he'd be perfect playing that Pepe role in front of the defence to restrict Barcelona's attacking options. However, he'd be a lot more suited to that role than Carrick.

[Wooderson]

Barca first, VDS heroics, late Utd equaliser and Utd on pens.

[The Nal]

Barca first, VDS heroics, late Utd equaliser and Utd on pens.

[strummer77]

I would happily pay a lot of money to see VDS heroics win the game for Utd. What an ending to a career. Would be Zidane-esque!

I just can't see it happening.

[The Nal]

Zidane's career ended a bit differently though haha. I personally hope they end in identical fashion

[thetime]

if we united play 2 up front we will win, if we play 5 in midfield we will not.

im quite confident, alot more than 2009.

[ralph250]

3 man mid we could try to shut them out til late and look to snatch one.

A 2 man mid against "default" Barca won't be able to hold out all game to snatch a late winner. Outcome of being outnumbered in the mid. If we play Hernandez with Rooney off picking up Busquets (to stop him acting as a pivot/initiator), then leaves Carrick and Giggs picking up the three of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi when he drops from his false 9 position. Us outnumbered and one of those three free - short of one of Vidic or Rio coming out to follow Messi but then that leave gaps for Villa and Pedro to exploit coming in off the diagonal. The fullbacks can narrow in such case, but then Alves will still look to provide width and get in behind if so. Keeping Rio and Vidic together more likely, and thus probably playing with a high line to compress space between the two banks of four to nullify space for Messi to operate, but then threat of them breaking through that and getting 1 on 1, or again Alves getting in behind the fullback from wide. Valencia can tuck in but then ideally you want him as an outball. Park can't really tuck in much as leaves Alves the whole right flank. Dilemmas everywhere and so if going for Hernandez imo we must score and take the lead in the first 20 minutes. Failure to do so, and we're unlikely to win the game imo, as think we'll be tired out pressing and chasing.

If we are able to snatch one early though then we have a real chance. I'd think Barca will look to pass it between themselves for a few minutes to attempt to regain composure, but I would anticipate them to play more conservative until roughly the 60th minute as cautious of getting caught on the counter and conceding a second. Think they'd look to not concede again and hope Messi can do some magic in the meanwhile to get them back into it. Even Barcelona I don't think would want to open themselves up too much and have to overturn a 2 goal deficit against Utd.

As such, I'd have thought Guardiola will either check the runs of Alves (thus allowing Park to tuck in instead of Valencia leaving us a more effective outball), or drop Busquets deeper as more of a centre back (so 3-4-3) thus losing their pivot but allowing Alves able to push on. With that we can invert our midfield triangle from a 2-1 with Rooney at the apex, to a 1-2 with Carrick dropping deeper into Messi's space, and Rooney dropping deeper to pick up one of Xavi/Iniesta instead.

If would play out like above, then leaves us around a 40-50 minute window of opportunity until the final 3rd of the game, where won't be outnumbered. Will be less tiring as Barca will have less options on the ball than when they've got everyone forward as normal. If Alves stays back will be able to play more compact as Barca will have less width and they'll have less proximity for interplay if Villa and Pedro stay wide...and with Barca behind they'll have to force the game slighly more hopefully resulting in less percentage play and more turnovers of possession which hopefully we can counter with and snatch another.

If still 1-0 by roughly 60-70 minutes, then they'd have to throw caution to the wind and start going for it and really force it, and that's where we could come under the cosh a fair bit. More gaps in behind though, and fresh legs of Nani could be effective off the bench.

If they score first, I can't see too much of a chance back. Passed into submission.

Edited May 27, 2011 by ralph250

[ampersand]

i've got a free £5 bet on this tomorrow. what to waste it on.....

[strummer77]

if we united play 2 up front we will win, if we play 5 in midfield we will not.

im quite confident, alot more than 2009.

[ralph250]

If you play two right up top, you will crumble.

[harderfaster]

i've got a free £5 bet on this tomorrow. what to waste it on.....

[strummer77]

As above, unless score first. Alves is often the outball when needed, and Busquets the pivot they can play off to retain possession. Score and chances are they lose one of those and it'll help us massively. Barcas strength is the options they give themselves. Start limiting those and we'd have a chance. Whilst capable, I'd take my chances if they have to resort to hoping Messi can do it alone with dribbles.

"default" Barca, ie how they play without caution (ie. when drawing or leading), and we'd be f**ked trying to hold on all game with just two.

First goal is imperative imo.

[olliet101]

His brain's probably still hurting from getting his head around Jersey Boys so he'll be largely ineffectual anyway...

[thetime]

time for rooney to step up to the challenge, 2 cl finals hes been awful. if he doesnt step up we can safely say hes no where near world class.

good luck tonight lads, im more confident tonight than the previous 4 euro finals.

just remember we have beat barca with a better player than messi in it, and that was maradoona in his prime.

Edited May 28, 2011 by thetime

[ralph250]

Still think that if you score first you won't play an orthodox 4-4-2, in fact I don't think you ever do with Rooney. He drops so deep at times.

Edited May 28, 2011 by ralph250

[ralph250]

time for rooney to step up to the challenge, 2 cl finals hes been awful. if he doesnt step up we can safely say hes no where near world class.

[thetime]

Not sure you can judge that purely on just tonight, especially if Fergie puts him on the left which is still a possibility if lining up 433. (park centrally instead of Fletcher who I just can't see playing a part after his illness).

Plenty of player whom I'd consider world class have been made to look ordinary by this Barcelona, and 2 of Rooneys 3 finals would've been against them, and the last one he ended up as a 2nd left back pretty much.

Lot easier to show your class when got a platform to be like Messi will likely have tonight. Messi is likely to play in his natural position, to receive the ball more frequently and in more dangerous positions. If Rooney ends up only touching the ball every 20 minutes and when he does he's 60 yards from goal, then much harder to be decisive.

Need a performance from him though really.

Edited May 28, 2011 by thetime

[ampersand]

... to score first, (opposing team) to win 3-1. probably some hot odds there.

[ralph250]

oh my the nerves.

Edited May 28, 2011 by ralph250

[thetime]

Yep. Not been able to do anything all week.

Think just to got to enjoy it. If we win, then huge elation and it'll be absolutely huge for the club. If lose, we still won a pretty significant league title so the seasons still been a success. Will be gutted but there's no shame in losing to Barca and I hope that everyone doesn't start looking to blame players if they make a mistake or call for their head. Considering in transition really, there wasn't much expectation from the fans at the start of the season of reaching a CL final this year. We've done brilliantly to get this far.

I just hope we do it for Fergie and a great send off for VDS.

edit: big test for Fabio if he starts; he's only started 6 prem games and 6 CL games in his career.

[Banana Co]

WTF is Nick Clegg doing at the game?

[lharris92]

WTF is Nick Clegg doing at the game?

[strummer77]

United's tactics were wrong, but at the end of the day what a side that Barca team are. Stunningly good. Absolutely outclassed.