Football (World Cup 26)

[charlierc]

22 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

It feels to me Tuchel is a useful scapegoat, but surely the players have to take some responsibility. For all the talk about England being more attacking after taking the lead , it’s not as if they were playing flowing football when they scored.

 

The English media for months have been campaigning for Rice to be the best midfielder in the world. To me he made minimal impact this tournament. Kane and Bellingham were quiet throughout the game and England’s defence has looked quite ropey a few times this tournament.

 

I don’t see how the manager is to blame for a team being unable to get the ball and keep it, who is this great player he left on the bench who would have made a difference?

I think Rice looked worn out. He definitely shouldn't have played against Norway given he was ill the whole week before the match but between the injury he was carrying even before this tournament started and the illness, it's not a surprise he just didn't look right. Indeed as Saka has looked rough all tournament, Saliba did his back during the France semi and Odegaard ran out of energy in Norway's games, there's an argument Arsenal's lack of rotation has not helped. 

 

It was definitely an England team of moments though - quiet then a lot. It'll get you so far but ultimately not over the line. I didn't see the team winning against Spain because Spain's ability to control games, especially in midfield, just looks smoother. 

[Ben7amin_]

2 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Eh. That would be a surprise. 

 

Feel like the obvious candidate for a successor is Eddie Howe. Though as a Newcastle fan who saw them on multiple occasions last season try and fail to defend a 1-0 lead, it wouldn't exactly be much of a change. 

 

Ive always been surpised that Eddie Howe has not been at least a much stronger candidate in the past - he has seemed like an obvious choice.  Id take him.

 

 

[lost]

8 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Eh. That would be a surprise. 

 

Feel like the obvious candidate for a successor is Eddie Howe. Though as a Newcastle fan who saw them on multiple occasions last season try and fail to defend a 1-0 lead, it wouldn't exactly be much of a change. 

 

I agree Howe would be a better choice I just think the FA would love that "golden generation" narrative.

[Ben7amin_]

Obviously early days - so probably to soon to read into it.

 

If Pep is at all a realistic possibility - then we must do it. 

 

Edited July 16 by Ben7amin_

[charlierc]

1 minute ago, Ben7amin_ said:

Obviously early days - so probably to soon to read into it.

 

If Pep is at all a realistic possibility - then we must do it. 

 

Pochettino is on the list? I think if an Argentinian was offered the job after last night, people's heads would explode. 

[Ben7amin_]

Just now, charlierc said:

Pochettino is on the list? I think if an Argentinian was offered the job after last night, people's heads would explode. 

 

Id take him in a flash 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Pochettino is on the list? I think if an Argentinian was offered the job after last night, people's heads would explode. 

We could have an Argentinian coach who gets us knocked out by Germany in the semis next time.

[steviewevie]

On reflection, the semi finals isn't bad, well done England...now I don't have to worry about this sh*t for another couple of years.

[xxialac]

Just now, steviewevie said:

On reflection, the semi finals isn't bad, well done England...now I don't have to worry about this sh*t for another couple of years.

Yeah, semi finals is a big improvement on what we came to expect in the 90s and 00s.

 

On the other hand, it's hard to see us pushing on and winning a tournament any time soon unless a new crop of talent emerges that is one level up from what we have now.

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Yeah, semi finals is a big improvement on what we came to expect in the 90s and 00s.

 

On the other hand, it's hard to see us pushing on and winning a tournament any time soon unless a new crop of talent emerges that is one level up from what we have now.

Is it a big improvement, it’s in many cases one round further and possibly linked to easier draws as opposed to improved quality.

[charlierc]

33 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Is it a big improvement, it’s in many cases one round further and possibly linked to easier draws as opposed to improved quality.

See this was not an easy draw imo - DR Congo were impressive against Portugal and indeed played very well against England, Mexico in the Azteca was the most obvious banana skin you could ask for and Norway beat Brazil in the previous round and have a master scorer up top. And that's to say nothing of reaching the semis at this bloated tournament meaning one extra round compared to the Euros or indeed the last WC. And at that one, I thought England were unlucky against France in the quarters. But hey. It is what it is.

[charlierc]

46 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

On reflection, the semi finals isn't bad, well done England...now I don't have to worry about this sh*t for another couple of years.

See you at the Euros in 2 years huh. 

 

Or perhaps we can put all this kind of projection and anxiety onto the Women's World Cup next year, assuming England get through the play-offs after getting demolished by Spain in qualifying.

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, charlierc said:

See this was not an easy draw imo - DR Congo were impressive against Portugal and indeed played very well against England, Mexico in the Azteca was the most obvious banana skin you could ask for and Norway beat Brazil in the previous round and have a master scorer up top. And that's to say nothing of reaching the semis at this bloated tournament meaning one extra round compared to the Euros or indeed the last WC. And at that one, I thought England were unlucky against France in the quarters. But hey. It is what it is.

I didn’t say easy, I said easier. As I have said before I think the Mexico win is a little overrated. They haven’t got any kind of track record of playing decent teams in competitive home matches.

 

Accepting 2010 was a mess for England. I think the teams that knocked England out of all the world cups in my lifetime are better than the teams England beat this tournament.

[charlierc]

34 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I didn’t say easy, I said easier. As I have said before I think the Mexico win is a little overrated. They haven’t got any kind of track record of playing decent teams in competitive home matches.

 

Accepting 2010 was a mess for England. I think the teams that knocked England out of all the world cups in my lifetime are better than the teams England beat this tournament.

Overrated or otherwise, you still have to do the job and it could have gone badly wrong, especially after the Quansah red card. 

 

I think the only real bona fide failure I can say was not reaching Euro 2008 and Iceland in 2016. Most of the rest were penalties or losing close contests against very good teams. Even the 2014 debacle, England were just thrown into a group of death. 

 

I want to suggest as a possible extra factor if the impact of playing through to extra time in the extreme humidity of Miami a few days earlier didn't help. But that could just be copium, particularly as Argentina also played there. 

[Skip997]

Anyway on to Argentina vs Spain. Not too bothered who wins but prefer Spain, a proper class team

[balti-pie]

Spain are all very controlly and dominant, but as a spectacle they can be spectacularly boring. Yamal apart there's really nobody who gets me up off my seat. Yeah, Rodri rules midfield, Oyarzabal holds the ball up, Olmo does bits, but none of it is sexy in the least - i dont particularly care if its going to dominate international football for the next half decade, it doesnt move me at all. I view them like i do Man City i suppose, yeah they're better that everyone else, but i just bring myself to care very much at all if they win - its not good, its not bad, its just happened. 

At least Argentina are able to make you feel emotions, even if a lot of those are anger 😄 they are so good at being arseholes. I quite enjoyed that Simeone's son has the same line in rotten playacting and monstrosity, there's a genetic and cultural bloodline at play! 

 

Spain 2-1 Argentina in the final, i suspect - and the bronze final will end up 3 or 4-0 France  - England are out of puff. No shame, they're just a shade behind this level, mentally as much as anything. I'd have loved to have seen how they'd have got on against Brazil actually - this isnt a good Brazil at all, and they deservedly lost to Norway, but England would have had to beat a team with a Brazil shirt on - whether they're good or bad, there's still that mental block of beating a team from a big nation and thats something England have often struggled with at tournaments. 

[pink_triangle]

52 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Overrated or otherwise, you still have to do the job and it could have gone badly wrong, especially after the Quansah red card. 

 

 

I heard a couple of people call it one of the greatest matches in World Cup history, it will be forgotten outside England and Mexico fans. As said previously, backs against the wall is easier against championship level players, they are a lot less likely to score.

 

Maybe Tuchel could have done better, but I feel the media are giving the players an easy ride here. Cape Verde and Egypt had much more of an attacking threat than England had at any time yesterday. I feel the players should take some responsibility, it’s not just down to tactics.

[steviewevie]

kind of can't be arsed with it now...bah humbug.

[steviewevie]

But after people have settled down there seems to be a consensus forming that Tuchel was actually reacting to how both teams were playing...England naturally more defensive (and exhausted), Argentina on the offensive, so maybe he should be given a bit of a break too. Que sera sera.

[kaosmark2]

Speaking as a Newcastle fan....

 

I'd love Howe to go to England. I think it'd improve both teams. I really appreciate what he's done for us, but I have a strong feeling/suspicion that he's out of ideas for doing different things, the team is getting stale, and he's not got enough goodwill left with the fans (2 atrocious derby displays did a lot for that). I'd also much rather he leaves with his head held high to go to the England job than gets unceremoniously sacked mid-season.

 

Obviously also depends on us getting a good manager in (not Sl*t).

 

Re England, I think Howe needs a bit more of a break than is generally acknowledged - 15m ago he was really sick with pneumonia, then had a summer where he and his nephew were doing the transfer business basically without help. While they kinda f**ked it a bit, he's just not had a break. International football is a lot more scouting, planning, and then bursts of intense training around a couple of matches, which will probably suit Howe for a while. I'm not sure if he could get England actually over the line, but I certainly don't think he's take Henderson + Mainoo to play a grand total of 8 minutes between them. 

[Ben7amin_]

Looks like a Gregs on deansgate got smashed up last night. Some people should  not watch football if they can't handle at times losing (especially if they are English) 

 

 

Edited July 16 by Ben7amin_

[Ben7amin_]

I said Argentina would win before a ball has been kicked and I still feel they will beat Spain.   It obviously won't be pretty..

 

3rd place will go to whichever team is committed enough to put any effort in.  Perhaps the Golden Boot race might be more important here than 3rd place

 

 

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Skip997]

1 hour ago, Ben7amin_ said:

Looks like a Gregs on deansgate got smashed up last night. Some people should  not watch football if they can't handle at times losing (especially if they are English) 

 

 

Well there’s a surprise 

[steviewevie]