Hold or give up ticket?

[northernangel]

2 hours ago, Nelvis said:

Multicultural genres like pop, hip hop and R&B?

 

and indie? (Gossip - who’ve got a new album out, and headlined 6music fest last week)

 

I’ve been 10 times and a wide range of genres has been in the ethos of the festival ever since I’ve been going. And I think that’s a good thing 

 

Also re: Simz/SZA/gossip - you could say “why is kiwuanuka on the pyramid” or “why are disclosure headlining the other in 2024” or “why are two door cinema club so high up the bill” - there’s these arguments everywhere but it just seems to be the women that get complained about

Not at all, I've got at least 4/maybe 5 of the people I want to see that are female...might even be 6.

I've actually pointed out that I feel Michael Kiwanuka should be more like 4th/5th down, hence where The Killers potential secret set comes I'm to take care of that.

Two Door still cover quite big tours so subbing Other isn't that ourageous, it's just repetitive.

Gossip have been covered multiple times already. I've also covered why are Disclosure headlining other in 2024. I've covered all of what I questioned dude. It's all mentioned in this forum, Disclosure to headline WHs for example. I also pointed out heavily with Idles so it's not on the females at all....it's in general.

Sub wise, yes but it's poor hip hop and R&B and why use both sub slots for that?, why not the electronic act, the r&b act and rock or dance/rock act based. They want to change/alternate....fine, but what they actually want to do it is change it all.

[BluesManP]

18 hours ago, gizmoman said:

The fact is, female bands in the past simply weren't there, the odd ones that did appear such as Fanny and The Slits were seen as a novelty, times have changed and there are a lot more female musicians now but operating a "positive discrimination" policy to try to get female artists better slots is not the way, let artists get the right slot on their merit not their sex. northenangel is right to point it out. It might take a few more years to have a truly balanced lineup but it will happen naturally, no need to try and force things.

 

Ever stopped to think why they were not there? Listen to female artists when they talk about how they are treated. This is still happening in 2024. You can't just pretend that in the whole of the UK women just didn't want to make bands or didn't make them. Times haven't "changed". What has changed is our awareness of the historical mistreatment that UK female acts have endured  and still endure. Listen to UK female acts talking about this. There is plenty of content on the internet about this.

You talk about "merit" but what is merit worth on its own when you have the industry mistreating female artists just for being female? You simply can't expect equal outcomes when half of the artists are being targeted just for being women. Glasto are trying to do their bit in balancing this by giving more opportunities to voices that have been underrepresented. You seem to be under the impression that both male and female acts have always walked down the same path in the industry world, faced similar issues and had similar opportunities. That is not correct. Please, listen to female acts talking about this, we can all help if we listen. An open mind is all it takes

Edited March 17 by BluesManP

[MMMarc1720]

I once had a ticket in 2014 and gave it up as was skint. Haunted me ever since, got one this year, granted the lineup hasnt blown me away but cannot wait to go. 

There is enough there on each day that I want to see, granted its not quite Macca or Elton.

[BluesManP]

16 hours ago, northernangel said:

 

It's really not. I'm afraid at this point it's actually a little bit of ignorance. Are you completely ignoring everything Emily said in the build up to this festival. If you don't think they have made a direct ploy to cover more females at whatever cost, more mutli cultural genres, some of which aren't at the level they are booked at all....Gossip headlining JP in 2024....and it hasn't affected the quality of lineup we get overall then you are in dream land!

This basically 

Yes, that 3rd headliner though had to be female which clearly put a band headlining Other that are nowhere near that level and most likely replaced SZA herself. SZA isn't a Glastonbury headliner on merit, come in! You are trying to convince yourself now.

It is. Emily just talked about balancing the gender ratio in the lineup. That's all we know. We know nothing beyond that. We know nothing about why the specific artists were chosen. That's speculation. That's what I said earlier. Saying "a direct ploy to cover more females at whatever cost, more mutli cultural genres" is speculation. We know nothing about the specific strategy and rationale implemented to achieve a balanced gender ratio. And things like "some of which aren't at the level they are booked at all" are opinions which is nothing wrong. But pretending that they are facts is problematic because they are subjective opinions. Especially, there this objective idea of "quality" or that any of us know what Glasto uses to evaluate the suitability of different artists for different stages. We really don't know. Even if we think we do. It's just speculation and opinions and there is no point being upset when they don't match the reality. So there is no point saying whether x artist is Glasto headliner on merit because none of us know the criteria used to decide that. Sure you can try and guess but guesses are not facts.

[northernangel]

33 minutes ago, BluesManP said:

It is. Emily just talked about balancing the gender ratio in the lineup. That's all we know. We know nothing beyond that. We know nothing about why the specific artists were chosen. That's speculation. That's what I said earlier. Saying "a direct ploy to cover more females at whatever cost, more mutli cultural genres" is speculation. We know nothing about the specific strategy and rationale implemented to achieve a balanced gender ratio. And things like "some of which aren't at the level they are booked at all" are opinions which is nothing wrong. But pretending that they are facts is problematic because they are subjective opinions. Especially, there this objective idea of "quality" or that any of us know what Glasto uses to evaluate the suitability of different artists for different stages. We really don't know. Even if we think we do. It's just speculation and opinions and there is no point being upset when they don't match the reality. So there is no point saying whether x artist is Glasto headliner on merit because none of us know the criteria used to decide that. Sure you can try and guess but guesses are not facts.

Right, end of discussion agree to disagree. I get enough of what that post is about and there is no point.

[gizmoman]

On 3/17/2024 at 3:47 PM, BluesManP said:

 

Ever stopped to think why they were not there? Listen to female artists when they talk about how they are treated. This is still happening in 2024. You can't just pretend that in the whole of the UK women just didn't want to make bands or didn't make them. Times haven't "changed". What has changed is our awareness of the historical mistreatment that UK female acts have endured  and still endure. Listen to UK female acts talking about this. There is plenty of content on the internet about this.

You talk about "merit" but what is merit worth on its own when you have the industry mistreating female artists just for being female? You simply can't expect equal outcomes when half of the artists are being targeted just for being women. Glasto are trying to do their bit in balancing this by giving more opportunities to voices that have been underrepresented. You seem to be under the impression that both male and female acts have always walked down the same path in the industry world, faced similar issues and had similar opportunities. That is not correct. Please, listen to female acts talking about this, we can all help if we listen. An open mind is all it takes

Times certainly have changed, the bands I referenced were about in the 1970's, 50 years ago, society has changed massively especially in regard to females taking on roles which were once predominately male. I am sure there is still the occasional issue for females in the music business but i seriously doubt it is anything like as bad as it once was. (see The Runaways, another 70's female band if you want horror stories of rape and abuse).

"You seem to be under the impression that both male and female acts have always walked down the same path in the industry world, faced similar issues and had similar opportunities. That is not correct."

never said or implied that, in fact the examples I gave illustrate the fact that girl bands had to have a gimmicky name to get noticed, they didn't get the same respect male bands had, life has always been harder in business (music and otherwise)  for women but things have improved, there are plenty of women in the music biz and plenty of opportunity, look at the lineup for any festival and compare it to say 20 years ago and you will see a change. The argument really is, do female acts need to be given extra promotion? I don't think they do now, there are enough about and plenty of them are good enough to succeed on their own. You clearly disagree, at what point will this "positive discrimination" be unnecessary? How will we know things are at a fair level? Will we need to keep treating women as victims of male dominance forever?

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

The argument really is, do female acts need to be given extra promotion? I don't think they do now, there are enough about and plenty of them are good enough to succeed on their own. You clearly disagree, at what point will this "positive discrimination" be unnecessary? How will we know things are at a fair level? Will we need to keep treating women as victims of male dominance forever?

Err, wtf?   

Having a balanced line up is just about providing acts with equal talent equal opportunities.  If anyone thinks they have lesser talent, then that's on them and they can poke it. 

Edited March 18 by clarkete

[gizmoman]

22 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Err, wtf?   

Having a balanced line up is just about providing acts with equal talent equal opportunities.  If anyone thinks they have lesser talent, then that's on them and they can poke it. 

But it's not, the festival have a target of 50/50 male/female acts, slots are allocated on the basis of sex,(or should that be gender?)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51485570

"When Emily was arranging this year's line-up, she explicitly blocked out spots for female acts, filling the blank spaces with the word "female"."

If there was already a 50/50 split in the business then there would be enough equal quality acts to fill those slots, since there isn't a 50/50 split they are promoting some lesser popular acts into those slots. I think we will get to 50% organically. No need to push it like this.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Which act do you fel has been 'pushed in'?

[gigpusher]

For anyone who thinks women have an entirely equal chance in the music industry and that the hard work is over please read this article and if you still feel the same after reading it then nothing I could say would ever change your mind! 
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/misogyny-music-industry-rina-sawayama-self-esteem-interview-b2508677.html

[gizmoman]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Which act do you fel has been 'pushed in'?

I've no idea, maybe none, we don't know who was available for each slot and exactly why the decisions were made, personally I don't really care about who plays which slot, we only have a fraction of the lineup at the moment and I can always find plenty to see, I've seen plenty of great female acts in the past too, well before this "problem" was identified. Only posted on this topic because it was said no one else shared northernangels view.

[clarkete]

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I've no idea, maybe none, we don't know who was available for each slot and exactly why the decisions were made, personally I don't really care about who plays which slot, we only have a fraction of the lineup at the moment and I can always find plenty to see, I've seen plenty of great female acts in the past too, well before this "problem" was identified. Only posted on this topic because it was said no one else shared northernangels view.

Oh no, you clearly care, even if it means we think you're a misogynist too 🙄

[gizmoman]

16 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

For anyone who thinks women have an entirely equal chance in the music industry and that the hard work is over please read this article and if you still feel the same after reading it then nothing I could say would ever change your mind! 
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/misogyny-music-industry-rina-sawayama-self-esteem-interview-b2508677.html

Some horrific tales there, seems the business is (still) full of predatory men. Not sure prioritizing female acts at Glasto is going to change that. Needs people to challenge and prosecute where appropriate.

[gizmoman]

10 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Oh no, you clearly care, even if it means we think you're a misogynist too 🙄

Think what you like, I have 4 daughters, why would I want a world where women are discriminated against? I may disagree on the solutions but still want equality.

[gigpusher]

4 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Some horrific tales there, seems the business is (still) full of predatory men. Not sure prioritizing female acts at Glasto is going to change that. Needs people to challenge and prosecute where appropriate.

They are not prioritising female acts encouraging equality is not prioritising! The more women have a platform in the business, the more producers, the more bookers then the less chance that men get away with that behaviour. 

[philipsteak]

You all have so much more patience than me.

I know i should, but...

[clarkete]

2 hours ago, gizmoman said:

Think what you like, I have 4 daughters, why would I want a world where women are discriminated against? I may disagree on the solutions but still want equality.

Then please stop bemoaning women being given an equal chance, which is all the festival are doing. 

EE has been quite clear of the structural problems she faced that prevented female acts getting a foot in the door - https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/emily-eavis-glastonbury-booking-culture-male-sexist-headliners-a8845991.html

[BluesManP]

12 hours ago, clarkete said:

Then please stop bemoaning women being given an equal chance, which is all the festival are doing. 

EE has been quite clear of the structural problems she faced that prevented female acts getting a foot in the door - https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/emily-eavis-glastonbury-booking-culture-male-sexist-headliners-a8845991.html

This. Saying "why would I want a world where women are discriminated against" but then refusing to acknowledge that we live in that world already is wild.

[gizmoman]

15 hours ago, clarkete said:

Then please stop bemoaning women being given an equal chance, which is all the festival are doing. 

EE has been quite clear of the structural problems she faced that prevented female acts getting a foot in the door - https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/emily-eavis-glastonbury-booking-culture-male-sexist-headliners-a8845991.html

O.K. this is my last post on the subject, it's hard to have a discussion when my views are misrepresented and you won't acknowledge what the festival are actually doing.

"women being given an equal chance, which is all the festival are doing."

if that was the case I wouldn't have an argument, everyone should have an equal chance based on merit, Emily has decided women are underrepresented in the business and wants to change that, she is operating a system of positive discrimination, go and re-read the articles posted previously. There is nothing wrong with supporting that stance, maybe it will help in the long run and I may be wrong but if you support it say so, don't pretend it's something else and that I'm against women being given a fair chance. Women are and have been underrepresented at Glastonbury because they are underrepresented in the business as a whole, until we get to point where 51% of musicians are women we will presumably have to have these policies, won't see it in my lifetime I suspect. Anyway to end on a positive note, Emily, get these booked for 2034,

 

 

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

if that was the case I wouldn't have an argument, everyone should have an equal chance based on merit, Emily has decided women are underrepresented in the business and wants to change that, she is operating a system of positive discrimination, go and re-read the articles posted previously. 

Feel free to point out any featured article that refers to either positive discrimination or promoting lesser artists.

I can only see such language in your posts...and I have looked.

[Furq]

I'm giving up my 3 x adult tickets (and 2 x kids places) for what would have been my tenth Glastonbury.

I was borderline, mainly due to complications with kids getting time off school.

Line-up has decided it.

Don't have a massive problem with headliners - DL and Coldplay obviously family friendly.

But I counted just 11 acts I want to see. Two years ago it was 30.

Probably just a co-incidence. (Or maybe the delayed 2022 was super-good due to Covid?)

Next year could be great for me, if stars align.

Anyway, hope everyone who goes this year has a great time.

I'll be back for the autumn ticket bunfight!

[northernangel]

19 minutes ago, Furq said:

I'm giving up my 3 x adult tickets (and 2 x kids places) for what would have been my tenth Glastonbury.

I was borderline, mainly due to complications with kids getting time off school.

Line-up has decided it.

Don't have a massive problem with headliners - DL and Coldplay obviously family friendly.

But I counted just 11 acts I want to see. Two years ago it was 30.

Probably just a co-incidence. (Or maybe the delayed 2022 was super-good due to Covid?)

Next year could be great for me, if stars align.

Anyway, hope everyone who goes this year has a great time.

I'll be back for the autumn ticket bunfight!

To be honest 11 acts off of the first poster isn't that bad. IF you had 30 previously, it was just a very well dealt hand. I for example had nowhere near 30 for 33, in fact had Macca not bee on it I actually was happy enough to not currently be going.

[northernangel]

1 hour ago, Furq said:

I'm giving up my 3 x adult tickets (and 2 x kids places) for what would have been my tenth Glastonbury.

I was borderline, mainly due to complications with kids getting time off school.

Line-up has decided it.

Don't have a massive problem with headliners - DL and Coldplay obviously family friendly.

But I counted just 11 acts I want to see. Two years ago it was 30.

Probably just a co-incidence. (Or maybe the delayed 2022 was super-good due to Covid?)

Next year could be great for me, if stars align.

Anyway, hope everyone who goes this year has a great time.

I'll be back for the autumn ticket bunfight!

To put into context too, I had 16 acts on the clashfinder for 2022 including secret acts like Jack White I was bothered with seeing without delving deep into everything which means not all of these were onthe poster. Taking clashes into the equation, I had 9 that were clash 3 and another 3 that I think would have been clear winners when it came to it. I had 3 acts on Saturday with two of them clashing in probably the hardest clash. I would have headed for the gates almost certainly after Lorde and I likely will be this year after Nia Archives on the basis she is doing Sunday night. Not my final act I'd have wanted to finish on the Sunday but I'm not even intrugued by anything else so quite happy to have a couple of early drinks and head off.

[Furq]

1 hour ago, northernangel said:

To put into context too, I had 16 acts on the clashfinder for 2022 including secret acts like Jack White I was bothered with seeing without delving deep into everything which means not all of these were onthe poster. Taking clashes into the equation, I had 9 that were clash 3 and another 3 that I think would have been clear winners when it came to it. I had 3 acts on Saturday with two of them clashing in probably the hardest clash. I would have headed for the gates almost certainly after Lorde and I likely will be this year after Nia Archives on the basis she is doing Sunday night. Not my final act I'd have wanted to finish on the Sunday but I'm not even intrugued by anything else so quite happy to have a couple of early drinks and head off.

Talking of clashes, I should add that I didn't actually see all the 30+ I highlighted pre-festival in 2022.

And the thing about the 11 this year is that literally none are absolutely must-sees for me.

Fairly sure it's just coincidence that the line-up is not not, er, lining up with my personal tastes. Hope so, anyway.

[northernangel]

18 minutes ago, Furq said:

Talking of clashes, I should add that I didn't actually see all the 30+ I highlighted pre-festival in 2022.

And the thing about the 11 this year is that literally none are absolutely must-sees for me.

Fairly sure it's just coincidence that the line-up is not not, er, lining up with my personal tastes. Hope so, anyway.

I would wait for the next step at least personally