Primavera Sound 2024

[diogozsz]

Just now, xxialac said:

I don't understand the nuance of this to have been able to form a view but it's not ideal that she's become an accidental hero of far right people who spew hate like Dan Wootton, The Daily Mail, GB News etc and if she gets to Number 1 in the charts as expected, then there will be even more media spotlight on this.

It's a sensitive decision now for any festival to book her, especially a festival that is proactively promoting trans artists.

Her weird and constant response to all this backlash just proved she’s not a true ally for trans people – so I must agree with you. Booking her now wouldn’t make sense for Primavera.

[UsernameHere]

Whether she is anti-trans or not isn't the issue to me. The issue is the festival has positioned themselves as very pro-LGBTQ and if the public perception is that she's anti-trans PS likely won't book her as it wouldn't be worth the trouble for them. 

[chilirocker]

41 minutes ago, diogozsz said:

Her weird and constant response to all this backlash just proved she’s not a true ally for trans people – so I must agree with you. Booking her now wouldn’t make sense for Primavera.

All she needed to say is "I support Trans people but have some concerns about puberty blockers which might need consultation". Instead it read as if she was sorry she had been caught expressing anti-trans views but doubling down on it. She also weirdly mentioned she didn't make music for one community, despite saying repeatedly over the years, that she makes music for the gay community. The whole statement was just strange.

[Quadrophobia]

1 hour ago, chilirocker said:

All she needed to say is "I support Trans people but have some concerns about puberty blockers which might need consultation". Instead it read as if she was sorry she had been caught expressing anti-trans views but doubling down on it. She also weirdly mentioned she didn't make music for one community, despite saying repeatedly over the years, that she makes music for the gay community. The whole statement was just strange.

While I agree on this, this controversy will have been forgotten very soon. The stance she took on children being unable to make certain decisions and puberty blockers being potent medicine is - while I personally disagree with her - not completely outrageous, but rather... insensitive. Calling her anti-trans due to these comments feels like a far fetch for me, even though I do not agree with her statements. 

Bringing out a lunatic antisemitic and praising him as a core influence did not lead to Travis Scott being blacklisted after all.

 

[Rico_Pliskin]

1 hour ago, chilirocker said:

All she needed to say is "I support Trans people but have some concerns about puberty blockers which might need consultation". Instead it read as if she was sorry she had been caught expressing anti-trans views but doubling down on it. She also weirdly mentioned she didn't make music for one community, despite saying repeatedly over the years, that she makes music for the gay community. The whole statement was just strange.

People keep mentioning anti trans. In her view it's more pro child protection issue. 

Two separate issues.

She is supportive of adults being Trans as far as her statements/history reads.

It's a case of 2 + 2 = 5 

I don't know what anti trans statement she has said. Can anyone quote where she has anti trans ideations?

[xxialac]

1 hour ago, UsernameHere said:

Whether she is anti-trans or not isn't the issue to me. The issue is the festival has positioned themselves as very pro-LGBTQ and if the public perception is that she's anti-trans PS likely won't book her as it wouldn't be worth the trouble for them. 

This is exactly at the nub of it. Didn't want to spur a debate as to rights and wrongs of this which is for another forum probably. 

Was just pointing out that her chances of appearing on the lineup at PS24 (rightly or wrongly) have now diminished significantly.

[UsernameHere]

15 minutes ago, Quadrophobia said:

Bringing out a lunatic antisemitic and praising him as a core influence did not lead to Travis Scott being blacklisted after all.

Just on this one - PS also booked Jay Electronica not that long ago who is probably the most openly anti-semetic person in music, maybe bar Kanye, and has been that way for a long time to my knowledge. Maybe it wasn't as much an issue because he's not a headliner so less eyes on it but kind of surprising.

[Rico_Pliskin]

1 hour ago, UsernameHere said:

Whether she is anti-trans or not isn't the issue to me. The issue is the festival has positioned themselves as very pro-LGBTQ and if the public perception is that she's anti-trans PS likely won't book her as it wouldn't be worth the trouble for them. 

Been thinking on this, maybe music festivals should back out of the politics of the day and focus on music. And if the people buy tickets then they've voted with their feet.

If people are convicted of crimes or in the middle of a court case then yes blacklist them from being platformed.

We can all agree we don't want to see Gary Glitter taking to a stage anytime soon.

are we going to never see the likes of Arcade Fire, Kanye on stage again as they once were, or Travis Scott (for allegedly inciting deaths) or Matt Healy (1975) saying something controversial, or Morrissey, or a whole host of rappers being homophobic and the list goes on and on. Or Lizzo supposedly abusing her dancers.

Musicians are some of the most flawed people going. 

if I don't like Kanye because he is/was an anti semite doesn't mean others will hold the same opinion as me in such a high regard. 

[xxialac]

On the one hand I wouldn't dismiss not booking someone for holding abhorrent views or behaving morally reprehensibly as 'politics'. 

On the whole though, I think people should have free speech and be able to voice any opinions they have.

And music festivals should similarly have the same autonomy to be able to book whomever they want. Primavera Sound seems to be taking a strong stand on some issues. People who agree with that use your own autonomy and go, and if you don't, don't go!

[Quadrophobia]

51 minutes ago, Rico_Pliskin said:

Been thinking on this, maybe music festivals should back out of the politics of the day and focus on music. And if the people buy tickets then they've voted with their feet.

If people are convicted of crimes or in the middle of a court case then yes blacklist them from being platformed.

We can all agree we don't want to see Gary Glitter taking to a stage anytime soon.

are we going to never see the likes of Arcade Fire, Kanye on stage again as they once were, or Travis Scott (for allegedly inciting deaths) or Matt Healy (1975) saying something controversial, or Morrissey, or a whole host of rappers being homophobic and the list goes on and on. Or Lizzo supposedly abusing her dancers.

Musicians are some of the most flawed people going. 

if I don't like Kanye because he is/was an anti semite doesn't mean others will hold the same opinion as me in such a high regard. 

You cannot "back out of politics". If you book abusers, you're endagering your atendees and other artists. If you book an antisemite you're giving them a platform to incite hatred. Neutrality is simply siding with the oppressors to put it bluntly.

Also, court proceedings are incredibly lopsided. Most abusers have absolutely nothing to fear from a court case, because even if they are brought to trial it is incredibly unlikely for them to be sentenced. The justice system is a completely inadequate means of bringing about safety - it after all yields from a deeply misogynist, racist and classist society, just like the police. And as the law is very inflexible, it has a very high latency in adjusting to societal shifts towards a less misogynist, racist and classist society.

 

 

I mean, there is a pretty obvious difference between Kanye, who pushes views that are outright dangerous to the lives of people and Matt Healy/Lizzo/Travis Scott did things that are not right, but rectifiable. As for Arcade Fire: I personally found it dispicable that someone obviously abused their fame to lure on much younger people. Certainly it doesn't qualify as a crime, but as an (female) artist I'd not feel very safe in the same backstage as Win Butler.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Quadrophobia

[Rico_Pliskin]

14 minutes ago, Quadrophobia said:

You cannot "back out of politics". If you book abusers, you're endagering your atendees and other artists. If you book an antisemite you're giving them a platform to incite hatred. Neutrality is simply siding with the oppressors to put it bluntly.

Also, court proceedings are incredibly lopsided. Most abusers have absolutely nothing to fear from a court case, because even if they are brought to trial it is incredibly unlikely for them to be sentenced. The justice system is a completely inadequate means of bringing about safety - it after all yields from a deeply misogynist, racist and classist society, just like the police. And as the law is very inflexible, it has a very high latency in adjusting to societal shifts towards a less misogynist, racist and classist society.

 

 

I mean, there is a pretty obvious difference between Kanye, who pushes views that are outright dangerous to the lives of people and Matt Healy/Lizzo/Travis Scott did things that are not right, but rectifiable. As for Arcade Fire: I personally found it dispicable that someone obviously abused their fame to lure on much younger people. Certainly it doesn't qualify as a crime, but as an (female) artist I'd not feel very safe in the same backstage as Win Butler.

People vote with their feet.

By not platforming people who views you do not share you're not giving people a chance to think for themselves and say ok I won't go see Kanye because I think his views are reprehensible.

It's like an promoter saying, these are my views and therefore these should be your views too. 

Do we think that if Kanye if invited we are suddenly going to get a lot of skinheads abusing people or if Arcade fire is invited that alot of guys who can't control their hands are going to feel empowered to act like that at a festival. I don't really think so.

 

On the subject it seems to be ok to have let's say an anti police/establishment/man/conservative whatever status quo acceptable group sentiment with bands.

sometimes I get bowled over with the amount of double think involved.

[scatteredscreens]

6 minutes ago, Rico_Pliskin said:

It's like an promoter saying, these are my views and therefore these should be your views too. 

At the same time though, why would a promoter (or anyone) book something that they massively disagree with?

If I have a party, I'm not going to invite a racist comedian for example as it's not what I am, and I don't want to give them a platform (my party).

If Primavera or anyone don't want to platform something based on that then that's fair enough, free speech, free to book who they want. 'People vote with their feet' doesn't really apply in this instance.

Roisin is a fool for what she did btw, her apology was insult to swathes of LGBT (particularly trans) fans who have supported her. Getting endorsed by Graham Lineham is not a hill you want to die on.

[scatteredscreens]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

On the one hand I wouldn't dismiss not booking someone for holding abhorrent views or behaving morally reprehensibly as 'politics'. 

On the whole though, I think people should have free speech and be able to voice any opinions they have.

And music festivals should similarly have the same autonomy to be able to book whomever they want. Primavera Sound seems to be taking a strong stand on some issues. People who agree with that use your own autonomy and go, and if you don't, don't go!

Completely agree.

Let Roisin have her opinions, plenty of people can now decide hey I don't want to support this person because I think they're a bigot, let those views be heard so we can stop supporting her.

[Rico_Pliskin]

4 minutes ago, scatteredscreens said:

At the same time though, why would a promoter (or anyone) book something that they massively disagree with?

If I have a party, I'm not going to invite a racist comedian for example as it's not what I am, and I don't want to give them a platform (my party).

If Primavera or anyone don't want to platform something based on that then that's fair enough, free speech, free to book who they want. 'People vote with their feet' doesn't really apply in this instance.

Roisin is a fool for what she did btw, her apology was insult to swathes of LGBT (particularly trans) fans who have supported her. Getting endorsed by Graham Lineham is not a hill you want to die on.

Yep you're completely right with your example of it's my party.

Of course promoters are allowed to book who they want and of course they can continue to do so.

But people in general are bending to influence on what is and isn't acceptable quite easy.

I say book Roisin, and maybe Gabi would too. But face the backlash from a very vocal and social media savvy minority.

Perhaps not

[UsernameHere]

1 hour ago, Rico_Pliskin said:

Been thinking on this, maybe music festivals should back out of the politics of the day and focus on music. 

People can lean one way or the other on this, but the way I see it, the cat's out of the bag.

The political landscape has changed - politics are more present in different parts of society. People seem to be more socially conscious these days (or at least present themselves as socially conscious online) and this has resulted in commercial businesses taking stances on social politics because they've realised that it builds brand advocacy and to be cynical about it - increases revenue at the end of the day.

I'd be surprised if this changes any time soon.

[Quadrophobia]

1 hour ago, Rico_Pliskin said:

People vote with their feet.

By not platforming people who views you do not share you're not giving people a chance to think for themselves and say ok I won't go see Kanye because I think his views are reprehensible.

It's like an promoter saying, these are my views and therefore these should be your views too. 

Do we think that if Kanye if invited we are suddenly going to get a lot of skinheads abusing people or if Arcade fire is invited that alot of guys who can't control their hands are going to feel empowered to act like that at a festival. I don't really think so.

 

On the subject it seems to be ok to have let's say an anti police/establishment/man/conservative whatever status quo acceptable group sentiment with bands.

sometimes I get bowled over with the amount of double think involved.

I am quite certain I voted with a ballot last time.

 

Democratic societies are more than just elections, they are based on equality, equity, representation and respect. Discourses are shifting societies since we learned to speak and it is nothing new to take a stance on political issues for festivals. 

[Rico_Pliskin]

Just now, Quadrophobia said:

I am quite certain I voted with a ballot last time.

 

Democratic societies are more than just elections, they are based on equality, equity, representation and respect. Discourses are shifting societies since we learned to speak and it is nothing new to take a stance on political issues for festivals. 

You've heard the expression before no?

[emmanuel]

3 hours ago, Rico_Pliskin said:

Been thinking on this, maybe music festivals should back out of the politics of the day and focus on music.

I strongly disagree with this. I like to go to festivals that have a sense of community, and I have no interest to go to a commercial festival that will just book anything for money, including abusers. Arcade Fire & co. can play their own shows, or that Walmart sponsored festival, but I really hope we continue to have festival spaces safe from people like that.

[Rico_Pliskin]

57 minutes ago, emmanuel said:

I strongly disagree with this. I like to go to festivals that have a sense of community, and I have no interest to go to a commercial festival that will just book anything for money, including abusers. Arcade Fire & co. can play their own shows, or that Walmart sponsored festival, but I really hope we continue to have festival spaces safe from people like that.

A sense of community.

I usually have some beers, watch some good bands, meet some nice people and ride the wave of the crowd. Where there's arts and talks I engage in.

That's as much community as I get at Primavera. And got the same at the commercial type fests too.

Are there people that go to fests that sit around and play oppression bingo like they could by going on twitter any day of the year?

Edited September 15, 2023 by Rico_Pliskin

[Olivedal 1904]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:05 PM, foolee said:

What heavier acts are people hoping for/expecting next year? 

Think Bob Vylan would be a great addition. 

Also, do we think Yeah Yeah Yeahs could be back so soon? 

Last year was strong for heavier acts with Liturgy, Amenra, Turnstile, Unwound, Just Mustard, Boris and others.

This year for heavy and slightly less heavy acts I would love to see Cult of Luna, Alcest (surprising they have never performed at Primavera), Julie Christmas, Explosions in the Sky, Year of no Light, Panopticon, Russian Circles, Electric Wizard, Slow Crush, The World Is a Beautiful Place and I Am No Longer Afraid to Die, PUP (at the main days this time), Slowdive, Celeste, Quicksand, Sunn O)))

Most of these are touring or with new album out.

And then of course the ultimate wish just like every year is My Bloody Valentine. 

[davidoffescassi]

17 hours ago, emmanuel said:

I strongly disagree with this. I like to go to festivals that have a sense of community, and I have no interest to go to a commercial festival that will just book anything for money, including abusers. Arcade Fire & co. can play their own shows, or that Walmart sponsored festival, but I really hope we continue to have festival spaces safe from people like that.

Primavera lacks sense of community. I love their line-ups, my favs in the world, but c'mon. They started with the political stuff just to justify to change their editorial line, because all the indie totems played so many times there, and they had to book new faces, try to connect with new generations, etc.  You can see all their LGTBI speeches and whatever, but you don't feel a community there, it's a very "individual" festival, it's not a like Roskilde o Sziget festival, you can feel a community there. 

 

Regarding Arcade Fire, What conclusive evidence is there besides a pitchfork article? 

Edited September 16, 2023 by davidoffescassi

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

On 9/15/2023 at 9:13 AM, Quadrophobia said:

While I agree on this, this controversy will have been forgotten very soon. 

 

I doubt that, lots of vindictive people out on the internet who won't let controversies go.

Not to say that Roisin Murphy should be off the hook, she should really know better.

 

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

11 hours ago, davidoffescassi said:

Regarding Arcade Fire, What conclusive evidence is there besides a pitchfork article? 

Butler has been a known prick for years, so I bet that a lot of the backlash from within the music industry is simply due to people validly disliking him and now having an excuse to no longer deal with Arcade Fire.

[joselito]

On 9/15/2023 at 10:25 AM, xxialac said:

This is exactly at the nub of it. Didn't want to spur a debate as to rights and wrongs of this which is for another forum probably. 

Was just pointing out that her chances of appearing on the lineup at PS24 (rightly or wrongly) have now diminished significantly.

She will be playing at Primaveras in South America.

[xxialac]

8 hours ago, joselito said:

She will be playing at Primaveras in South America.

Yeah but at the time she was announced there was no controversy.