news & politics:discussion

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

hopefully they won't start rolling back stuff now because of the change in tory policy and worries about losing red wall votes !!!! 

Money will stall it........................... because that is what is needed and Labour are petrified of being bad with it........ so if they cannot get growth high enough (and that is going to be really tough to do) then savings have to come from somewhere............ where?

This all needs seriously radical change and investment. It is a war, the most serious war ever. Money does not matter in war.

Sorry to all if I am getting annoyed but this should all have happened 20 years ago but one after another they did bugger all and all I see are the same words which will follow the same patterns.

I really am sick to death of what is happening - or rather not happening. The world needs change. REAL CHANGE

[Neil]

24 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Rishi Sunak considering weakening key net zero policies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66857551
 

if they're not net zero they're not net zero.!

[steviewevie]

I mean, if Trump or some other Trumpette gets in next year then what will that mean for US net zero policies?

Just have to put our trust in Xi, Modi, Putin and MBS. HAHAHAHA.

(we're f**ked).

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I mean, if Trump or some other Trumpette gets in next year then what will that mean for US net zero policies?

Just have to put our trust in Xi, Modi, Putin and MBS. HAHAHAHA.

(we're f**ked).

think the usa might get there via wildfires/floods and drought.

[Nobody Interesting]

Sorry if I have sounded angry - it is because I am.

It is not your faults and I know you all care and I understand your faith that Labour will get us there..................... sadly I just do not share that level of hope. They will of course do better but not enough, not nearly enough.

We have no kids, the future will happen without us so why should we care? We recycle everything we can, our neighbours don't............ but we will not use that as an excuse not to.

Delaying the road to net zero might get you to net zero at the same date (yeh, tight) but the delay means more CO2 every year for every year of delay so you get to net zero with far more CO2 in the atmosphere meaning net zero is now not enough, it needs to be negative to even catch up.

All my adult life I have worked with nature and wildlife. I have been out there day after day, year after year and I have seen things change.

Change was slower, but now it is really fast. We did nothing then, we are doing next to nothing now.

I care even though it really will make little difference to me or my wife as we will be worm food........................... I get angry when I see people with kids, with grand kids who just could not give a toss and there are millions of them out there.

I really do not know why we f**king bother to do what we do - and that is far more than recycling and always has been............. I am tired, it is hard and I am running out of effort to carry on being bothered and on days like to day I just want to scream 'f**k the lot of you, you made the bed, lie in it'.

and breathe...........................

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Money will stall it........................... because that is what is needed and Labour are petrified of being bad with it........ so if they cannot get growth high enough (and that is going to be really tough to do) then savings have to come from somewhere............ where?

wealth tax

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Big IF there.

Not everyone does care, not high on most people's lists of priorities. It's all cost of living, public services, immigration, crime. Tories may well do with this rowing back on net zero with a large proportion of the population. Look at ULEZ.  You can complain as much as you like, but that is the reality...and when comes to the next government it will be either tories or labour, or maybe labour-lib dem coalition. Best chance is a labour majority, a coalition will be mired in compromises and infighting and will get less done. Greens could win a few MPs at the most. Labour have a lot to sort out, and if things don't improve they will be out. If you live in an area where Green could take votes away from Tories...then go ahead. If you live in a Tory-Labour or Tory-LibDem marginal and you vote Green well, I think you're a fool.

actually steviesmartarse climate change comes 3rd according to this...

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

wealth tax

They have already said they will not do that. They have said they will not do any more taxes apart from those already announced like non dom. They have basically left themselves no other options.

There was  a Labour MP on BBC2 politics live the other week that said this too!!

[Ozanne]

34 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So if everybody votes Green the Tories win - erm, I think you need some maths lessons.

I used the word everybody deliberatly. EVERYBODY.

I am sick of red to blue and back again. It has happened for 70 years and look at the mess - so lets just hope red works better til blue get sback in again..................

Why do you think the UK is f**ked?

It is cos we vote, as a country, for those that have failed before and hope they don't next time.

The time is now for change if we really want to make a real difference - but this thread shows we don't and jyst hope the next lot do nbetter

I think the Labour green policy is the most thorough and detailed that we have. The Greens have ideas but nowhere near the specific policies that Labour does.

Labour will enact the green policies that are needed in the country and Starmer will essentially be the green PM. 

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

I think the Labour green policy is the most thorough and detailed that we have. The Greens have ideas but nowhere near the specific policies that Labour does.

Labour will enact the green policies that are needed in the country and Starmer will essentially be the green PM. 

Sorry to laugh but LOLasm

Pretty much everything Labour is saying the Greens said 10 years ago....... before Labour used 'Green Industrial Revolution' it had been a Green three word slogan for 15 years.

If you really want to read some details about how to get to net zero, fully costed and how to do it fast then you need to look at the Green Party website. It is all on there and has been for longer than red or blue have even been talking about it.

Labour are playing catch up, true they are running quicker now but they are at least 2 laps of the track behind.

Please go to their site and spend a few days reading their very detailed policy documents that can be downloaded.

What Labour is saying is great - but is about 40% of what is needed. I wish they really were 'leading' in this, then they might have my support.

 

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

They have already said they will not do that. They have said they will not do any more taxes apart from those already announced like non dom. They have basically left themselves no other options.

There was  a Labour MP on BBC2 politics live the other week that said this too!!

they said no new wealth tax...doesn't mean they can't change what we already have...😎

[Crazyfool01]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think the Labour green policy is the most thorough and detailed that we have. The Greens have ideas but nowhere near the specific policies that Labour does.

Labour will enact the green policies that are needed in the country and Starmer will essentially be the green PM. 

im intrigued how you think Labour have more detailed green policy than a party that set that out as their raison de etre ? im mean sure argue that the green policies are weaker elsewhere ? 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

A vote for Labour is a vote for nuclear. I wonder what environmental group would endorse that?

[mattiloy]

24 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

im intrigued how you think Labour have more detailed green policy than a party that set that out as their raison de etre ? im mean sure argue that the green policies are weaker elsewhere ? 

Let me spare you the intrigue - there aint much thinking going on over there.

But then maybe thinking isn’t for everyone.

 

What I’m intrigued about is as to whether @Ozanne thinks he’s helping Labour in some small way by posting on these forums or hindering them.

All I see is people becoming more irritated and repelled by this mini manifestation of Starmerism in our little corner of the internet.

I reckon he should quit doing the tories work for them, the big tory enabler.

[mattiloy]

https://x.com/hackneyabbott/status/1704149054123360651?s=46
 

Starmer is such a weasly c**t.

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Sorry to laugh but LOLasm

Pretty much everything Labour is saying the Greens said 10 years ago....... before Labour used 'Green Industrial Revolution' it had been a Green three word slogan for 15 years.

If you really want to read some details about how to get to net zero, fully costed and how to do it fast then you need to look at the Green Party website. It is all on there and has been for longer than red or blue have even been talking about it.

Labour are playing catch up, true they are running quicker now but they are at least 2 laps of the track behind.

Please go to their site and spend a few days reading their very detailed policy documents that can be downloaded.

What Labour is saying is great - but is about 40% of what is needed. I wish they really were 'leading' in this, then they might have my support.

 

I have looked at both their websites and whilst the Greens do have very good plans, Labour has solid policy offerings, papers that back up their policies and also has them costed which the Greens don’t generally tend to have because I guess they don’t get asked that question.

Labour have seen how important the climate agenda is, how engaged the public are for it and have now put together the detailed policy offering that is needed. When Labour deliver on those promises then the UK will be a clean energy superpower and we can put pressure on other countries to do the same. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Ozanne

[Rufus Gwertigan]

57 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

im intrigued how you think Labour have more detailed green policy than a party that set that out as their raison de etre ? im mean sure argue that the green policies are weaker elsewhere ? 

Just for interest the main environmental groups post a league table of party manifesto near an election. Here is Greenpeace for 2019

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/climate-debate-party-manifestos-climate-change-nature-2/

[pink_triangle]

The reality is under our first past the post system the greens are not going to win the election. In a con-lab marginal a vote for greens makes a Tory government more likely. The best hope for parties like Greens is a labour /labour led government and a move towards PR.

[Ozanne]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The reality is under our first past the post system the greens are not going to win the election. In a con-lab marginal a vote for greens makes a Tory government more likely. The best hope for parties like Greens is a labour /labour led government and a move towards PR.

Very true and is kinda what I mean. If after the next general election you want a government that takes climate change seriously then your best option is Labour. 

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I think the Labour green policy is the most thorough and detailed that we have. The Greens have ideas but nowhere near the specific policies that Labour does.

Labour will enact the green policies that are needed in the country and Starmer will essentially be the green PM. 

Y u lyin 4?

Here is an exhaustive very detailed archive of current Green party policy readily available on their website.

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/our-policies/long-term-goals/energy/

Here is just the part about energy:

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/our-policies/long-term-goals/energy/

 

Labour has 6 bullet points:

https://labour.org.uk/issue/labours-plan-to-cut-bills/

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by mattiloy

[Ozanne]

It’s time for a serious party to govern. 

[steviewevie]

[pink_triangle]

23 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Very true and is kinda what I mean. If after the next general election you want a government that takes climate change seriously then your best option is Labour. 

Another key point to me is that most PMs  don’t (only Blair and Cameron in my lifetime) become PM following a general election. There is a fairly decent chance that if Starmer becomes PM his successor will be picked by labour members who could go left if they choose.

[Ozanne]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

What does this even mean?

[steviewevie]

49 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Another key point to me is that most PMs  don’t (only Blair and Cameron in my lifetime) become PM following a general election. There is a fairly decent chance that if Starmer becomes PM his successor will be picked by labour members who could go left if they choose.

and then lose the next election.