news & politics:discussion

[kaosmark2]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

Me I'd link mp pay rises to nmw rises. so MPs only get a rise if the lowest paid get the same rise.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. MPs get paid triple FT minimum wage with no expenses. Or double + travel expenses. Something in that vein. High enough to keep it well-paid and a reflection on it being a difficult job, but also still directly tied to minimum wage.

[Skip997]

It's a really tricky one

Make the wages too low and you're likely to get under qualified people, too high and you're getting "career politicians" who don't give a damn about the country or even which party they work for.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

It raises pretty minimal amounts proportional to various policies. I did say that I thought the material difference was pretty minimal, and it's mostly the optics. The main issue politically is it removes a potential attack line and feeds into the narrative of "all politicians are the same".

Wrt MP salaries, I agree that they should be well paid, instead of the 1900s situation where only those that were independently wealthy could afford to make laws. My issue is that you need to tighten rules on 2nd jobs, and not have insanely high salaries and insanely high expenses. I don't think triple full-time minimum wage makes it low-paid!

I really don’t think it does feed into that narrative in fact I reckon it barely features in any narrative at all for voters. How many times has bankers bonuses been mentioned since end of October? I haven’t seen it once so it’s not an attack line Labour have been using so it’s not like they are missing out.

I’m not saying MPs are low paid but I feel there is room to increase their pay, cut down on the amount of MPs and tighten rules in 2nd jobs so you can improve the calibre of candidates. MPs expenses are needed as they pay for the running of their offices inc team etc. 

[Neil]

28 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yeah that's what I was thinking. MPs get paid triple FT minimum wage with no expenses. Or double + travel expenses. Something in that vein. High enough to keep it well-paid and a reflection on it being a difficult job, but also still directly tied to minimum wage.

i'd also tie -in public sector wages , so mps can't give themselves a better deal than the country gets from those politicians,.

[Crazyfool01]

25 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

It's a really tricky one

Make the wages too low and you're likely to get under qualified people, too high and you're getting "career politicians" who don't give a damn about the country or even which party they work for.

Surely not many of them are qualified ? Unless you count Eton as some kind of qualification 

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Surely not many of them are qualified ? Unless you count Eton as some kind of qualification 

we need our politicians to be smart people not dullards who would fail staking shelves or flipping burgers.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

we need our politicians to be smart people not dullards who would fail staking shelves or flipping burgers.

Look what we got 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Look what we got 

true - if we drop the wages its the best we'll get.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

true - if we drop the wages its the best we'll get.

Or we get people that have had real life experience of dealing with people and speaking to people that are on lower pay rather than billionaire prime ministers that don’t give a toss about anything other than lining pockets . Lower pay doesn’t equal stupidity just means at points you’ve not had the same life chances 

[Neil]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

Or we get people that have had real life experience of dealing with people and speaking to people that are on lower pay rather than billionaire prime ministers that don’t give a toss about anything other than lining pockets . Lower pay doesn’t equal stupidity just means at points you’ve not had the same life chances 

we need to do more to get better people. dunno how that is done, 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Neil said:

we need to do more to get better people. dunno how that is done, 

That I agree with 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

That I agree with 

cutting wages won't do it. some level of public service experience might be the answer ..... but that would exclude everyone without that experience.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

cutting wages won't do it. some level of public service experience might be the answer ..... but that would exclude everyone without that experience.

maybe some work experience in their chosen  department every so often ....  

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

maybe some work experience in their chosen  department every so often ....  

ok but you're talking about ministers, not MPs.

I think you need a mix of ages and experience, as well as sex/race/religion etc. In the end these people also need to get elected too.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok but you're talking about ministers, not MPs.

I think you need a mix of ages and experience, as well as sex/race/religion etc. In the end these people also need to get elected too.

yeah true was ahead of myself there 

[steviewevie]

and it is useful if a minister has some experience in whatever department, but obviously that's not often possible...so they have lots of civil servants and experts working for them to advise, shape and implement policy. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by steviewevie

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

38 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and it is useful if a minister has some experience in whatever department, but obviously that's not often possible...so they have lots of civil servants and experts working for them to advise, shape and implement policy. 

Some things are so specialised that a little experience isnt enough. Eg: transport. roads rail sea air all very different 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

 

Still can't clear the edit box 

[lazyred]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

After Cameron saying the same this looks like coordinated steps to get a deal from the Paris talks. Ceasefire and hostage release then try and bring the PA back into Gaza. Nothing for Hamas though but what have they left anyway? If it collapses the Isreali govt and gets rid of Netanyahu then even better.

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, lazyred said:

After Cameron saying the same this looks like coordinated steps to get a deal from the Paris talks. Ceasefire and hostage release then try and bring the PA back into Gaza. Nothing for Hamas though but what have they left anyway? If it collapses the Isreali govt and gets rid of Netanyahu then even better.

they're probably all waiting to see what Starmer says.

[Neil]

11 minutes ago, lazyred said:

After Cameron saying the same this looks like coordinated steps to get a deal from the Paris talks. Ceasefire and hostage release then try and bring the PA back into Gaza. Nothing for Hamas though but what have they left anyway? If it collapses the Isreali govt and gets rid of Netanyahu then even better.

just think its the normal of a two state solution being the only possible solution. its best pushed for when both sides can see the benefit in an agreement.

[lazyred]

Sing along, you all know the tune.

Keir Starmers waiting for his try, He'd like to come and lead us but he's rather vague on why

 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

and it is useful if a minister has some experience in whatever department, but obviously that's not often possible...so they have lots of civil servants and experts working for them to advise, shape and implement policy. 

Civil servants also create a continuation of  knowledge across different govts and ministers. They are unlikely to have the sort of in-depth experience and knowledge of the railways that some senior British rail staff had before privatisation.

if we want good outcomes we need good input.