news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

Gaza can have better if it wants better .

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Gaza can have better if it wants better .

From who?

Because you can bet your life it ain't getting F-all from Israel

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

From who?

Because you can bet your life it ain't getting F-all from Israel

Gaza had better until it decided to sh*t it's own bed.

[Neil]

You're Making perfect the enemy of better.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Gaza can have better if it wants better .

There needs to be an agreement, like they got close with the Oslo two state thingy...but there are so many hurdles can't see it ever happening...the settlers in west bank, the fact that most of Gaza now needs rebuilding, the hate, the history,...but that should still be the goal even if it is totally unrealistic. Leadership on both sides needs changing, but there doesn't seem to be anyone there on both sides. Whole thing is a massive f**king disaster.

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

Gaza had better until it decided to sh*t it's own bed.

Most things are better than being bombed to oblivion, doesn't make them good though.

[Neil]

12 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Most things are better than being bombed to oblivion, doesn't make them good though.

They weren't being bombed to Oblivion until they went murdering and raping.

[Crazyfool01]

[Neil]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

There needs to be an agreement, like they got close with the Oslo two state thingy...but there are so many hurdles can't see it ever happening...the settlers in west bank, the fact that most of Gaza now needs rebuilding, the hate, the history,...but that should still be the goal even if it is totally unrealistic. Leadership on both sides needs changing, but there doesn't seem to be anyone there on both sides. Whole thing is a massive f**king disaster.

Any compromise deal will need both sides to accept they can't have everything they want.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Neil said:

Any compromise deal will need both sides to accept they can't have everything they want.

well yeah...that's how it works...

[steviewevie]

They nearly got there in the early 90s with Rabin and Arafat...Rabin got killed by his own side for it and along came Netanyahu and the rest is history. There was a chance then, probably gone now. It was all part of some good sh*t that was happening in the 90s, walls coming down and peace deals...end of history and all that. Different place now, western liberal democracy on the back foot, US approaching end of its dominance, WW3 round the corner, the end is nigh.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They nearly got there in the early 90s with Rabin and Arafat...Rabin got killed by his own side for it and along came Netanyahu and the rest is history. There was a chance then, probably gone now. It was all part of some good sh*t that was happening in the 90s, walls coming down and peace deals...end of history and all that. Different place now, western liberal democracy on the back foot, US approaching end of its dominance, WW3 round the corner, the end is nigh.

and actually reading stuff on wikipedia about this, Arafat f**ked it too.

In 2000, after Yasser Arafat rejected the offer made to him by Ehud Barak based on a two-state solution and declined to negotiate for an alternative plan,^[18] it became clear that Arafat would not make a deal with Israel unless it included the full Palestinian right of return, which would demographically destroy^[19] the Jewish character^{[when defined as?]} of the State of Israel.^[20][21] For this reason, critics of Arafat claim that he put his desire to destroy the Jewish state above his dream of building an autonomous Palestinian state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_views_on_the_peace_process

[Neil]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

There was a chance then

not really, Israel wasn't convinced they'd have peaceful co-existence, cos the Palestinians haven't shown they can do it.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

not really, Israel wasn't convinced they'd have peaceful co-existence, cos the Palestinians haven't shown they can do it.

they signed a deal, oslo accord...couldn't imagine that happening today...and maybe instead of just one siding you should read up a bit more about it...takes two sides to tango, and Rabin was a good man, as was Arafat.

(relatively good).

[steviewevie]

oh dear.

 

[Neil]

29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they signed a deal, oslo accord...couldn't imagine that happening today...and maybe instead of just one siding you should read up a bit more about it...takes two sides to tango, and Rabin was a good man, as was Arafat.

(relatively good).

For the Palestinians it was mostly about getting an older generation back to the land after their time had run out in lebanon, Jordan and Tunisia.

[SheffJeff]

42 minutes ago, Neil said:

not really, Israel wasn't convinced they'd have peaceful co-existence, cos the Palestinians haven't shown they can do it.

[Skip997]

And of course all those 5590 were "terrorists"

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Grim.

I might get some hate on here but this is what frustrates me about what Hamas did on Oct 7th, they knew the make up of the Israeli govt, they knew what the reaction would be, they knew it would likely be devastating for Gazans, the knew, maybe hoped, that it would lead to a wider war. Israeli govt are a bunch of c**ts, but so are Hamas. Evil twat fanatical c**ts.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And of course all those 5590 were "terrorists"

no, but plenty were.

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Grim.

I might get some hate on here but this is what frustrates me about what Hamas did on Oct 7th

Something strange happened on Oct 7th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And of course all those 5590 were "terrorists"

and from the same angle each one of those 251 were evil oppressors?

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Something strange happened on Oct 7th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

too many words...what are you suggesting?

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Something strange happened on Oct 7th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

western security services could never f**k it up?

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

too many words...what are you suggesting?

I've spent time in Israel, they are the most security conscious/paranoid people I've met and yet despite repeated warnings from their eyes on the border they declined or decided not to act.