news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

bbc has changed its headlines for northern ireland.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

I've spent time in Israel, they are the most security conscious/paranoid people I've met and yet despite repeated warnings from their eyes on the border they declined or decided not to act.

for your take to make sense there would need to be a belief in only perfect from their eyes on the border.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

I've spent time in Israel, they are the most security conscious/paranoid people I've met and yet despite repeated warnings from their eyes on the border they declined or decided not to act.

ok, I like to keep an open mind...and you never know...but I get sick of all this conspirational shite from both sides, because their own side could never do anything wrong...it is the other that is evil. 

For now I am sticking to Hamas broke through Israeli security on a Jewish holiday, killed and raped a lot of people, took a load hostage, and Israel responded by pretty much destroying Gaza and killing 10s of thousands and there is potential of escalation all over the middle east and Iran are definitely playing a part in all this.

But, maybe it is just the zionist overlords.

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

for your take to make sense there would need to be a belief in only perfect from their eyes on the border.

Have you read the article. All of those observers go into great detail about the unusual activity they observed. It wasn't small details, it was massive changes in the behavior they had been watching for years. 

[Neil]

Just now, Skip997 said:

Have you read the article. All of those observers go into great detail about the unusual activity they observed. It wasn't small details, it was massive changes in the behavior they had been watching for years. 

Yeah read it days ago and free of your prejustices.

If you think they're perfect then you'll act on their every word if you think they're perfect then you've misunderstood the human condition.

[steviewevie]

My brother to this day thinks 911 was carried out by Mossad/CIA.

[steviewevie]

then there's Jews started WW2 or Zionists worked with Hitler or Jews controlling western governments or just plain old elders of zion... it's rife.

[mattiloy]

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Rochdale by-election in a few weeks...I think Galloway might be standing...

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Rochdale by-election in a few weeks...I think Galloway might be standing...

Galloway will make no difference in that by-election. 

[mattiloy]

I often wonder about when was the sort of critical moment of mission drift for liberalism.

In terms of interventionism, so intervening at first ostensibly to bring the world along on a journey towards democracy - but then ending up backing fascist war criminals just to keep the (often democratically elected) reds out from Batista to Pinochet to Kai Shek to Netanyahu today.

But also in the domestic sphere- like when did liberals all get horny over the queen and nukes and hating trans people.

There is this odd trend down the years of a reactionary regression towards authoritarianism under the aegis of protecting people’s liberty. At some point its like… whats the difference?

Edited January 30, 2024 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I often wonder about when was the sort of critical moment of mission drift for liberalism.

In terms of interventionism, so intervening at first ostensibly to bring the world along on a journey towards democracy - but then ending up backing fascist war criminals just to keep the (often democratically elected) reds out from Batista to Pinochet to Kai Shek to Netanyahu today.

But also in the domestic sphere- like when did liberals all get horny over the queen and nukes and hating trans people.

There is this odd trend down the years of a reactionary regression towards authoritarianism under the auspices of protecting people’s liberty. At some point its like… whats the difference?

Bit high brow.

And what do you mean by liberals?

[mattiloy]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Bit high brow.

And what do you mean by liberals?

Neolib hawks like Sir Trilateral Commission KC

[mattiloy]

Whose Labour Party find themselves again outflanked on the left by the tories.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Whose Labour Party find themselves again outflanked on the left by the tories.

It kind of is an unrealistic gesture at this point.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

My brother to this day thinks 911 was carried out by Mossad/CIA.

Same as belief in UFOs comes from a need to give an explanation for something not understood.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Same as belief in UFOs comes from a need to give an explanation for something not understood.

Yeh but UFOs are real.

[mattiloy]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It kind of is an unrealistic gesture at this point.

Strong disagree. It would be a massive coup. Makes both a ceasefire and eventual palestinian statehood more likely.

[philipsteak]

Just found out a lad I used to work with is the Tory candidate for my constituency. Seemed a nice enough guy (for a Tory) but a bit dim. But I could also imagine him having some fairly awful views. Rural posh boy. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeh but UFOs are real.

I went down the blaze TV  UFO rabbit hole the other day 😲

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Strong disagree. It would be a massive coup. Makes both a ceasefire and eventual palestinian statehood more likely.

If UK declared Palestine a state? Maybe, I don't know..not sure it would actually make f**k all difference..but yes could give it a go. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Strong disagree. It would be a massive coup. Makes both a ceasefire and eventual palestinian statehood more likely.

What does Palestinian statehood look like?

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, Neil said:

What does Palestinian statehood look like?

an important question that needs a definition if you're asking isreal to accept it as its neighbour.

does it, for example, have an army? or an air force? is it allowed to buy weapons? if it has these things how do we know they won't be used against Israel?

[mattiloy]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

If UK declared Palestine a state? Maybe, I don't know..not sure it would actually make f**k all difference..but yes could give it a go. 

Yes. The UK has withheld recognition of palestine all these years to placate Israel. To change that would be a major shift diplomatically and given the UK’s status as the US’s deputy its quite a big deal for them to turn around and say finally, enough is enough - that Israeli govt no longer has the unwavering support of the UK.

There is a good chance it influences other states positions. Which increases the chance of formal admission to the UN as a member state. States that recognise palestine 👇 

Edited January 30, 2024 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Yes. The UK has withheld recognition of palestine all these years to placate Israel. To change that would be a major shift diplomatically and given the UK’s status as the US’s deputy its quite a big deal for them to turn around and say finally, enough is enough - that Israeli govt no longer has the unwavering support of the UK.

There is a good chance it influences other states positions. Which increases the chance of formal admission to the UN as a member state. States that recognise palestine 👇 

ok, fair enough...maybe it would make a difference...still not sure, Israel seems to be so far ignoring anything anyone says including US. I expect a change of direction for Israel would need to come internally, in the end it is a nuclear power which seems to mean it can do what the f**k it likes. 

Let's see if anything comes from Cameron's suggestion...