news & politics:discussion

[lost]

Good stuff form Wes Streeting. Labour definitely starting to sound like the grown ups in the room:

 

[Neil]

13 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Hopefully the lack of red rosette should mean the end of Corbyn as a MP anywa

do you reckon his ego could cope with that?

 

 

 

[fraybentos1]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

bank of england doing their interest rate decision thingy at midday today. Will they go up to 3%?

BET NOW!

Hopefully 

[Kurosagi]

20 minutes ago, lost said:

Good stuff form Wes Streeting. Labour definitely starting to sound like the grown ups in the room:

 

Well that's an annoyingly shit article as it doesn't actually say what Streeting (or Labour) are proposing instead.

At the risk of sounding like the 'teenager' in the room, this particular quote incensed me:

"I think it is true to say that if the answer to the NHS challenge in the long-term is only ever increasing amounts of taxpayers’ money into a 20th century model of care, then there isn't going to be an NHS in the future,” he told a King’s Fund conference in London."

I mean we literally have a government using "20th century models" of economics where we exploit finite resources in the pursuit of growth that for decades has only ever delivered profits for a tiny minority of the population, whilst paying pathetic lip service to climate related issues that will ensure, to throw his words back at him, "there isn't going to be a [human race] in the future".

Of course we can still have a properly run NHS that is free at the point of use, it's all about priorities. What is the point of politics when there is no longer a vision to raise people up. Has there ever been a time when the difference between a labour or tory govt would be so woefully cigarette paper thin?

[lost]

We are above the OECD average on state healthcare spending comparable to somewhere like the Netherlands and higher than say Ireland, Spain & Denmark. I took the 20th century model comment to mean that when when the NHS was set up we had 50 workers for every dependant. That's soon going to be 3 to 1. We simply don't have the demographics of the 20th century rather a top heavy population of baby boomers in their 60's and 70's.

[fraybentos1]

Interest Rates up 0.75 percent

[Guest]

Interest rates are up to 3%, the biggest rise in 33 years. Good job Tories. 

[lost]

Pound had been falling all morning but sped up on the announcement. One of them voted for 0.25% 🤷‍♂️

Sounded alot more dovish than the FED.

Edited November 3, 2022 by lost

[fraybentos1]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Interest rates are up to 3%, the biggest rise in 33 years. Good job Tories. 

You are an imbecile. The Fed in the USA and ECB both also raised by 0.75 is that the Tories fault? They had to do it.

[steviewevie]

3%. Lovely.

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

Pound had been falling all morning but sped up on the announcement. One of them voted for 0.25% 🤷‍♂️

Sounded alot more dovish than the FED.

They have some nutter on the board who voted .25% last time too, I assume it is the same person. Was it not 7 votes for .75 though? thats fairly conclusive.

 

They are going to have to match what the USA does to an extent otherwise the pound will get hammered which just make imports more pricey and inflation worse. And the USA said there are more rises to come.

[steviewevie]

BoE warns that UK is already in recession - and that it could be longest since records began.

(and I copied that from a tweet, in case anyone is planning on outing me as a plagiariser)

[Kurosagi]

25 minutes ago, lost said:

We are above the OECD average on state healthcare spending comparable to somewhere like the Netherlands and higher than say Ireland, Spain & Denmark. I took the 20th century model comment to mean that when when the NHS was set up we had 50 workers for every dependant. That's soon going to be 3 to 1. We simply don't have the demographics of the 20th century rather a top heavy population of baby boomers in their 60's and 70's.

Don't deny there are challenges, especially relating to workforce (brexit shafting us) and funding (pharma shafting us). But I'm bridling at the ease with which labour under Starmer seemingly want to ditch the last vestige of hard won social equality: healthcare free at the point of use.

I get there is a nuanced discussion to be had about how we modernise the NHS (it was creaking even before 12 years of tory misrule), but I reject the implication from Streeting and labour that the discussion should START at 'what type of privatisation should we go for...'.

[steviewevie]

although currently a shallow recession

(© Robert Peston)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

BoE warns that UK is already in recession - and that it could be longest since records began.

(and I copied that from a tweet, in case anyone is planning on outing me as a plagiariser)

The Stevie act is wearing thin 😉

[steviewevie]

59 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

Well that's an annoyingly shit article as it doesn't actually say what Streeting (or Labour) are proposing instead.

At the risk of sounding like the 'teenager' in the room, this particular quote incensed me:

"I think it is true to say that if the answer to the NHS challenge in the long-term is only ever increasing amounts of taxpayers’ money into a 20th century model of care, then there isn't going to be an NHS in the future,” he told a King’s Fund conference in London."

I mean we literally have a government using "20th century models" of economics where we exploit finite resources in the pursuit of growth that for decades has only ever delivered profits for a tiny minority of the population, whilst paying pathetic lip service to climate related issues that will ensure, to throw his words back at him, "there isn't going to be a [human race] in the future".

Of course we can still have a properly run NHS that is free at the point of use, it's all about priorities. What is the point of politics when there is no longer a vision to raise people up. Has there ever been a time when the difference between a labour or tory govt would be so woefully cigarette paper thin?

NHS is already fucked, and people were going apeshit over a NI rise for more funds back in the spring. Everyone wants a decent free health system, no one wants to pay more tax. Labour could push for a tax increase to help pay, increase in income tax preferably, but that still probably wouldn't be enough. It doesn't really work anymore, I have given up even trying to get through to our GP, waiting times in A&E are now up to 12 hours, same with an ambulance. It is banjaxed, needs massive amounts of cash, as does social care. It was 2010 onwards that the real damage was done.

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

The word is, stagnation.

[Guest]

12 years of the Tories and this is what we have to show for it. 

[steviewevie]

recession till end of 2024 predicted...nice lead up to a general election..

[pink_triangle]

I agree with Streeting the current model doesn't work. Not enough invested in social care which has the consequence of adding both strain and expense to the NHS.

[Kurosagi]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Everyone wants a decent free health system, no one wants to pay more tax.

[Wave's hand for paying more tax for properly resourced pubic services...why is that considered so abnormal?]

Yeah, I know, blah blah blah I blame Thatcher blah blah blah 'no such thing as society' blah blah blah. Amazing how quickly the 80s/90s normalised attitudes that paying ANY tax is bad, that ALL public service workers are shirkers, that only PRIVATE companies can provide value for money, that nothing should get in the way of BUSINESS wanting to make profit, that giving to the RICH will trickle down to the poor blah blah blah.

It's idealistic I know, but I like to think it is a politician's ACTUAL job to put forward the arguments for a properly funded society full of quality public services people need so that we don't end up in a race to the bottom where we all end up in victorian workshouses. You know, inspire...people...that...it...doesn't...have...to...be...like...this...and...another...world...is...possible...

I clearly need a leftfield recharge...better get a bloody ticket this weekend...

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

[Wave's hand for paying more tax for properly resourced pubic services...why is that considered so abnormal?]

Yeah, I know, blah blah blah I blame Thatcher blah blah blah 'no such thing as society' blah blah blah. Amazing how quickly the 80s/90s normalised attitudes that paying ANY tax is bad, that ALL public service workers are shirkers, that only PRIVATE companies can provide value for money, that nothing should get in the way of BUSINESS wanting to make profit, that giving to the RICH will trickle down to the poor blah blah blah.

It's idealistic I know, but I like to think it is a politician's ACTUAL job to put forward the arguments for a properly funded society full of quality public services people need so that we don't end up in a race to the bottom where we all end up in victorian workshouses. You know, inspire...people...that...it...doesn't...have...to...be...like...this...and...another...world...is...possible...

I clearly need a leftfield recharge...better get a bloody ticket this weekend...

I don't think people have liked paying tax since the beginning of time....but maybe there is more a selfish attitude since Thatcher. This country mostly needs a proper redistrubtion of wealth, being so unequal is fucking us up.

Oh, and good luck with the Glastonbury ticket. Don't think I'm bothering.

[hodgey123]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I don't think people have liked paying tax since the beginning of time....but maybe there is more a selfish attitude since Thatcher. This country mostly needs a proper redistrubtion of wealth, being so unequal is fucking us up.

Oh, and good luck with the Glastonbury ticket. Don't think I'm bothering.

People don't like paying tax because they have the feeling that their money is being wasted. With the current government, that feeling is absolutely valid. What needs to happen, and what Kurosagi said better than I could, is a political party needs to be bullish in saying that tax rises are needed (maybe not across the board but that is another discussion) and that they are going to pay for x, y and z, and if the tax rises don't come, then x, y and z are going to continue failing. 

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

People don't like paying tax because they have the feeling that their money is being wasted. With the current government, that feeling is absolutely valid. What needs to happen, and what Kurosagi said better than I could, is a political party needs to be bullish in saying that tax rises are needed (maybe not across the board but that is another discussion) and that they are going to pay for x, y and z, and if the tax rises don't come, then x, y and z are going to continue failing. 

You can't afford to pay for a decent social care and health care system without tax rises in my view. The trouble is who will vote for the rises.