Football 2013-2014

[the_hedge]

You do realise a team can be good enough but could lose the league due to the manager making tactical errors don't you?

[eFestivals]

Arsenal are like a snooker player who constantly goes for a 147, one of the few capable of doing it, but keeps missing the blue.

i don't much disagree ... and yet each time they miss the blue, that proves them not capable of doing it, doesn't it?

You've done exactly the same in that snooker analogy as you did directly about Arsenal - stated the bleedin' obvious, but still somehow have managed to be wrong.

[eFestivals]

You do realise a team can be good enough but could lose the league due to the manager making tactical errors don't you?

it's a very tenuous claim tho, cos the only proof that they are good enough is doing it to prove they're good enough.

This is why far more of failure as a manager applies to Moyes as it ever can to Wenger.

[eFestivals]

The point I'm making is that had they done was was bloody obvious they would have won the league. They didn't because of their inept manager. Stoke couldn't have won the league because it would have taken years of massive cash injections and new players. Arsene Wenger just needed to make 2 or 3 of the right signings and they would have done it. He didn't so they remained weaker than the clubs above them

I've happily admitted all the way thru that they're weaker than the teams above them - but that's not what Nal is trying to say.

And any team that doesn't win "just needed" to do the right things - which is why it's so meaningless.

[the_hedge]

Wenger has failed. No trophies in 9 years with the teams he has had is tells me more about him than his team. He fails to patch the obvious holes time after time.

Has Moyes failed this year - yes, no doubt about it. Will he fail 9 years in a row? time will tell

[the_hedge]

I've happily admitted all the way thru that they're weaker than the teams above them - but that's not what Nal is trying to say.

And any team that doesn't win "just needed" to do the right things - which is why it's so meaningless.

[zahidf]

And yet it hasn't been good enough, has it?

Otherwise they'd have won the league.

The strongest team wins. All others are weak in comparison.

Edited March 26, 2014 by zahidf

[mrtourette]

You're using a different definition of "weak" to Nal. That's where the pointless circular arguments between you have come from.

[eFestivals]

Wenger has failed. No trophies in 9 years with the teams he has had is tells me more about him than his team. He fails to patch the obvious holes time after time.

Anyone could only patch the holes if he sees better players for the way he's trying to play. While there's better players, there's not necessarily better players for the way he wants to play and which are available for him to buy at a price he can afford.

I think it's only fair to remember that for most of those 9 years the club has been very financially stretched because of the new stadium. It's only in the last year that money se4ems to have become more readily available.

There's people who want to win at all costs (which would be Moaniho, for example), and then there's people who want to win but only win in their way.

The measure of success or failure is made against your own aims, not against all of the possibilities.

For example, you could probably be more financially successful if you sometimes sold your customers mouldy peaches, while you might prefer less financial reward and to not be that dishonest shark by only selling good fruit.

All the above aside, every year the whole world tells Wenger what players he needs to buy, but instead he keeps doing it his way. Perhaps he could succeed by taking the world's advice - tho that's not guaranteed - but for the neutral it would make English footie sooooo much worse.

Has Moyes failed this year - yes, no doubt about it. Will he fail 9 years in a row? time will tell

Ahhh, changed your tune already.

A minute ago it was all about how good enough players prove the manager is the one at fault, and we know that utd's players are good enough because they won with ease last season.

you might not agree with what i'm saying, but I'm applying a level of consistency that others are not.

[The Nal]

Except for UTD last year. I'd argue that was a weak team which played better solely because of their manager, than a lot of other better teams ( on paper). ( E.g, Chelsea, Man City)

[kaosmark2]

I think the ref bullying is a part of it....

[eFestivals]

You're using a different definition of "weak" to Nal. That's where the pointless circular arguments between you have come from.

It's where the circular pointlesss arguments involving Neil always come from.

It's only a pointless discussion because Nal's "weak" is completely meaningless. My words have been pointing that out.

If muscle won the league West Ham would be champions. It's being better that counts, and only being better.

If (hypothetical) Arsenal bought Messi, no one would doubt that would improve the team - but it brings no extra muscle. Perhaps that improvement would be enough to win the Prem, all done without anything to address the 'weak' that Nal is getting at.

And so his 'weak' is completely meaningless. It's being better that counts.

[Bobs]

i'd seemingly gave up on 4th, but so refreshing to see us win again away from home for the first time in 4 months. That really was overdue.

And the best thing is Arsenal drew, had Marriner not been a full time bottler, they could have lost. We have our game in hand Vs. Palace in due course, and of course welcome Arsenal to Goodison in 11 days time. What a game that'll be.

[The Nal]

And so his 'weak' is completely meaningless. It's being better that counts.

[eFestivals]

Being able stand up and be counted is important. Like Scholesie said, they go one nil down and they turn into a team of hiders.

That's bollocks tho.

What happened in at least two of the games you're on about is that they got completely stunned in the first 20 minutes by two of the best teams in the world playing at their very best (while Arsenal were perhaps having an off-day, which happens with all teams on occasions), and in that time they found themselves 3 goals down.

And THEN they gave up, as anyone might do (naming no names for other examples this season with lower scorelines ).

Everton got turned over by one of those teams in EXACTLY the same way. Are they 'weak' Arsenal mk 2, then?

As you said, Arsenal are better than Utd this season but Utd haven't conceded nearly as many goals against the top 4 teams.

but still more than Crystal Palace and Sunderland.

They're no less meaningful a comparison but it says the complete opposite. It's only use as a comparison is to show what a meaningless crock of shit these sorts of ideas are.

Edited March 26, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

anyway ... tonight's games....

I think Liverpool are going to lose to S'land tonight.

Probably because they're weak.

[The Nal]

anyway ... tonight's games....

I think Liverpool are going to lose to S'land tonight.

Probably because they're weak.

[eFestivals]

Nah Sunderland are in serious trouble. I think Suarez and Sturridge are going to tear them a new one.

in theory they should tear thru any team - as should City and Chelsea. But they don't always, sometimes teams lose the games they should win.

And I think of the bottom teams S'land have been playing better (under Poyet) than a fair few others, but the results haven't gone their way. Sooner or later it's going to roll a bit better for them, even if it doesn't roll enough to save them.

I think tonight is gonna be one of those.

I hope not tho. I'd like at least one of L'pool's games against city or chelsea to have a 'decider' feel to it. I just can't see them keeping it all together over the next 3 games so that the City game has that bigger meaning.

[ThomThomDrum]

I would be very surprised if Liverpool falter tonight especially considering its at Anfield, but any team can score against that defense.

It would be the Spurs game I would fear most before the "deciders". Again Liverpool should be able to handle Spurs but if they win tonight they will be going for an 8th win in a row against Spurs and that just may make them very dizzy.

West Ham V Hull smacks of a draw

[thetime]

What a good job brucie is doing at Hull.

[TheGayTent]

What a good job brucie is doing at Hull.

[Bobs]

I think it'll be Norwich, Sunderland and Cardiff for the drop.

Shame, i just think Sunderland's heads have gone!

[Essex_George]

anyway ... tonight's games....

I think Liverpool are going to lose to S'land tonight.

[ThomThomDrum]

How many games id "too many" games won in a row before a team starts to crack under the pressure of "this cant keep going on!"?

Liverpool could realistically be going for 10 wins in a row when they face City at Anfield. If that happens surely it will scare the shit out of them!

[The Nal]

I think it'll be Norwich, Sunderland and Cardiff for the drop.

Shame, i just think Sunderland's heads have gone!

Edited March 26, 2014 by The Nal