Andre91 Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 The Undertaker is an all-time WWE great due to his longevity but playing Devil’s advocate: The Undertaker has never carried the company. He has never been a huge draw, even during the company’s most successful period (he was a draw at Mania for a number of years, however), had some really duff periods of his career which included him being a terrible, out of shape worker for a couple of years in the early 00s and hasn’t had a great match since 2013. I would personally have Chris Jericho above The Undertaker in a list of all-timers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, Andre91 said: The Undertaker is an all-time WWE great due to his longevity but playing Devil’s advocate: The Undertaker has never carried the company. He has never been a huge draw, even during the company’s most successful period (he was a draw at Mania for a number of years, however), had some really duff periods of his career which included him being a terrible, out of shape worker for a couple of years in the early 00s and hasn’t had a great match since 2013. I would personally have Chris Jericho above The Undertaker in a list of all-timers. The Undertaker is probably the greatest gimmick in wrestling history. To me that automatically makes him a great. Add to that the streak in wrestling's biggest show. I would be reluctant to judge him on wrestling matches. As I said he probably needs a category for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckysalt Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 hours ago, jump said: I find more of the "cool" people talk about Randy Savage more than Flair or Hogan. I honestly was always more of a Savage fan, but that being said, I don't w*nk over the WM3 Steamboat match, its just ok. However he was excellent when he feuding with Hogan and Flair. His feuding with Hogan over the nWo kept that faction interesting for a long time in WCW and the WM8 match with Flair is one of my all time favourites. But Hogan and Flair certainly did more for the industry in terms of growth and maintaining that growth. I do feel Savage doesn't get the credit he should a lot of the time. Which is a real shame. There was long rumours of Savage pissing off Vince, we never really know what happened, but Vince has made it that he hasn't been celebrated as he should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I find Savage suffers coming at a time where Hulk dominated WWE so a spotlight wasn't allowed to shine away from him, a lot of guys from that time like Jake The Snake, Mr Perfect and Piper also had the same issue despite being massive. Even Savages Hall of Fame induction was taken over by Hogan. I'd also chuck in his Jake The Snake and DDP feuds as underrated ones that get lost as people normally go to his Hogan or Steamboat rivalries first. I take it people know of the rumours of the fallout between Savage and Vince? Allegedly Vince already pissed at Randy for leaving to go to WCW later finds out that when Stephanie was a teenager she and Savage slept together which is why he was shunned more so than others who pissed him off in the past. The Hall of Fame only really came about as he was being pushed publicly about Savage not being included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS_Jack_III Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Thought SDL was good again this week but my friends weren't quite so enthusiastic. Am i overlooking something? Raw was distinctly average again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckysalt Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 10:04 AM, jump said: I find Savage suffers coming at a time where Hulk dominated WWE so a spotlight wasn't allowed to shine away from him, a lot of guys from that time like Jake The Snake, Mr Perfect and Piper also had the same issue despite being massive. Even Savages Hall of Fame induction was taken over by Hogan. I'd also chuck in his Jake The Snake and DDP feuds as underrated ones that get lost as people normally go to his Hogan or Steamboat rivalries first. I take it people know of the rumours of the fallout between Savage and Vince? Allegedly Vince already pissed at Randy for leaving to go to WCW later finds out that when Stephanie was a teenager she and Savage slept together which is why he was shunned more so than others who pissed him off in the past. The Hall of Fame only really came about as he was being pushed publicly about Savage not being included. I really don't buy into the Steph thing, think its just an urban legend. He left in 1994, she would have been 16 at the time. He would have been 42, I pressume it would have happened prior to this time him leaving as well. I think Vince just felt betrayed by Savage and at the time Hogan and Savage had both gone, he literally had no guys, maybe it cus Vince probably payed Savage handsomely whilst injured and pretty much as soon as he was good to go, he didn't really do much in ring work and then left for WCW, you can tell that Vince is surprised at the time when you watch that Raw when he jumps over to WCW. Savage probably didn't even tell him until it was too late, same with Lugar jumping. You only have to look over to WCW at this point and especially in 95 and WCW literally had every big name there. Hogan, Savage, Lugar, Vader, Sting, Earthquake, Big Boss Man, Piper. Think it all got manifested on Savage. Whilst on Savage, I find it amazing he worked with Liz as his manager for so long in WCW after their past. Savage was on camera a very professional guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, luckysalt said: I really don't buy into the Steph thing, think its just an urban legend. He left in 1994, she would have been 16 at the time. He would have been 42, I pressume it would have happened prior to this time him leaving as well. I think Vince just felt betrayed by Savage and at the time Hogan and Savage had both gone, he literally had no guys, maybe it cus Vince probably payed Savage handsomely whilst injured and pretty much as soon as he was good to go, he didn't really do much in ring work and then left for WCW, you can tell that Vince is surprised at the time when you watch that Raw when he jumps over to WCW. Savage probably didn't even tell him until it was too late, same with Lugar jumping. You only have to look over to WCW at this point and especially in 95 and WCW literally had every big name there. Hogan, Savage, Lugar, Vader, Sting, Earthquake, Big Boss Man, Piper. Think it all got manifested on Savage. Whilst on Savage, I find it amazing he worked with Liz as his manager for so long in WCW after their past. Savage was on camera a very professional guy. I wouldn't be shocked if was true or false but it seemed to have started with a comment Lanny made rather than it being an urban legend. My understanding of the situation (from the those Monday Night Wars shows) was Savage was made to work on commentary even tho he wanted to wrestle with Vince's plan to build new stars which is why he left. Edited January 14, 2019 by jump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 12:35 PM, WS_Jack_III said: Thought SDL was good again this week but my friends weren't quite so enthusiastic. Am i overlooking something? Raw was distinctly average again. I enjoyed Smackdown, it's not on the Smackdown Six level but then nothing ever will be. I reckon it still suffers from being the "B" show of WWE. The opening and main event were really good, Rusev showed character development which is so rare and there were a couple of solid tag matches. The only iffy part to me was Mandy Rose being used like a diva rather than a women wrestler but even then I'd rather it was her than the likes of Becky or Asuka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre91 Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 hours ago, jump said: I enjoyed Smackdown, it's not on the Smackdown Six level but then nothing ever will be. I reckon it still suffers from being the "B" show of WWE. The opening and main event were really good, Rusev showed character development which is so rare and there were a couple of solid tag matches. The only iffy part to me was Mandy Rose being used like a diva rather than a women wrestler but even then I'd rather it was her than the likes of Becky or Asuka. I quite like Mandy being used as a ‘diva’. She’s the only character like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS_Jack_III Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 9:42 AM, jump said: I enjoyed Smackdown, it's not on the Smackdown Six level but then nothing ever will be. I reckon it still suffers from being the "B" show of WWE. The opening and main event were really good, Rusev showed character development which is so rare and there were a couple of solid tag matches. The only iffy part to me was Mandy Rose being used like a diva rather than a women wrestler but even then I'd rather it was her than the likes of Becky or Asuka. The Diva character kinda works well as a heel though in the current women's evolution era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 I do find it funny the scandalous towel she is wearing actually covers her more than her normal ring kit. So is Balor facing Brock because Braun is still injured or they want Balor to think the company believes in him so he wont run off to AEW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS_Jack_III Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, jump said: I do find it funny the scandalous towel she is wearing actually covers her more than her normal ring kit. So is Balor facing Brock because Braun is still injured or they want Balor to think the company believes in him so he wont run off to AEW? ? I know right. Why did we get the Alexa bit the other night too? We reverting from the women's evolution thing back to just wanting to bang them? Edited January 16, 2019 by WS_Jack_III Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, jump said: I do find it funny the scandalous towel she is wearing actually covers her more than her normal ring kit. So is Balor facing Brock because Braun is still injured or they want Balor to think the company believes in him so he wont run off to AEW? I don't think Balor would be a great loss, he is pretty mediocre. I don't see him.as a realistic opponent for Brock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 14 hours ago, pink_triangle said: I don't think Balor would be a great loss, he is pretty mediocre. I don't see him.as a realistic opponent for Brock. It's not realistic to expect anyone to beat Lesnar tho, at least with Balor you are getting another worker like AJ and Bryan who will get a decent match out of him. He'll probably be super-demon Balor too which will explain why he's not on par with him all of a sudden. TBH apart from the odd match here and there he's not done much of note in WWE, I wasn't hugely fussed over his NXT run. The smiley cool guy routine doesn't suit him compared to the strong style Buller Club leader he was in New Japan. I'd like to see New Day win the Rumble for a feud with Bryan. Their antics would complement heel Bryan and considering how big they are it's a shame they are stuck in the tag division where there's not much left for them to do apart from break the most tag title reigns of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 15 hours ago, WS_Jack_III said: ? I know right. Why did we get the Alexa bit the other night too? We reverting from the women's evolution thing back to just wanting to bang them? It’s a predominantly male fanbase. I don’t have a huge problem with them doing a bit of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, jump said: It's not realistic to expect anyone to beat Lesnar tho, at least with Balor you are getting another worker like AJ and Bryan who will get a decent match out of him. He'll probably be super-demon Balor too which will explain why he's not on par with him all of a sudden. TBH apart from the odd match here and there he's not done much of note in WWE, I wasn't hugely fussed over his NXT run. The smiley cool guy routine doesn't suit him compared to the strong style Buller Club leader he was in New Japan. I'd like to see New Day win the Rumble for a feud with Bryan. Their antics would complement heel Bryan and considering how big they are it's a shame they are stuck in the tag division where there's not much left for them to do apart from break the most tag title reigns of all time. I meant more visually than knowing who would win a real fight. I think they are better off putting bigger guys against him. I skip through new day, so that wouldn’t work for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said: I meant more visually than knowing who would win a real fight. I think they are better off putting bigger guys against him. I skip through new day, so that wouldn’t work for me! He matches against the other big guys have largely been duds tho, like I said I'd rather see a worker get a decent match out of him rather than another match the same quality of Reigns, Kane and Braun were doing all of last year with him. Saying that Samoa Joe got a something decent out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, pink_triangle said: It’s a predominantly male fanbase. I don’t have a huge problem with them doing a bit of both. I thought you were always complaining about how it's meant to be a PG/family show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, jump said: I thought you were always complaining about how it's meant to be a PG/family show? I would have no problem if they went back to the bra and panties matches of the attitude era! What they are showing now is no more racy than what you would see on an episode of neighbours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS_Jack_III Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, pink_triangle said: It’s a predominantly male fanbase. I don’t have a huge problem with them doing a bit of both. I mean, it was fairly harmless but just a bit odd after the year or so we've had with the women evolution stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 hours ago, WS_Jack_III said: I mean, it was fairly harmless but just a bit odd after the year or so we've had with the women evolution stuff. The reality is the womans revolution hasn't really been a draw. It may have produced better matches, but I don't think it has increased business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, pink_triangle said: The reality is the womans revolution hasn't really been a draw. It may have produced better matches, but I don't think it has increased business. Actually according to Steph 40% of the WWE audience is female now which she believes the women's revolutions has contributed to you also can't ignore Ronda's star power and Alexa Bliss & Nikki Bella are consistently good merch sellers. Also a female friend of mine who knows I follow wrestlers come up to me a few weeks to ask me about Becky Lynch and has started following it now because of her. Edited January 17, 2019 by jump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS_Jack_III Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, pink_triangle said: The reality is the womans revolution hasn't really been a draw. It may have produced better matches, but I don't think it has increased business. Even if that were true, the show is PG so what's the point? As I've said, just seems like a strange decision to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, WS_Jack_III said: Even if that were true, the show is PG so what's the point? As I've said, just seems like a strange decision to me. I remember Baywatch used to be on a family friendly time on ITV! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS_Jack_III Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said: I remember Baywatch used to be on a family friendly time on ITV! Aye, in the 90s, the same time WWE was all about tits and ass. Different time now innit. Also, at least the Mandy thing is part of a story. We got a bloke walking in on Alexa getting changed that had absolutely nothing to do with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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