Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

Is he not cup tied?

ahhh, you could be right. Lucky if he is.

[Steve P]

Well there are a good few teams i'd rather we'd drawn than AC but we've got a decent chance against them I think. Should be a good couple of games. As should Chelsea/Napoli

[The Nal]

Utd vs Ajaz

Citeh vs Porto

Two good games. Better quality than Utds CL semi final last year!

[pink_triangle]

Stoke v valencia. The British sides must be close to having drawn the 3 toughest teams in the tournament.

[kaosmark2]

Shamrock Rovers fans last night to 'Arry: "You should be in jail, you should be in jail, Harry Redknapp, you should be in jail’.

[TheGayTent]

Jealous of Stoke fans off to the Mestella too

[strummer77]

Apparently Suarez is going down. Fairly sure this won't be the end here if so. This shit might get even more messy...

Edited December 16, 2011 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

talking of footballers going down....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-16216966

[The Nal]

Apparently Suarez is going down. Fairly sure this won't be the end here if so. This shit might get even more messy...

Edited December 16, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Apparently Suarez is going down. Fairly sure this won't be the end here if so. This shit might get even more messy...

which ever way it goes I can't see anything but a mess from it.

If things go against Suarez as you're saying they might then in theory, anyone with half a brain should be able to distinguish that calling a black person 'black' (which is what Suarez is reported to have done in his own language) isn't anywhere on the sort of level of calling someone 'nigger', even if Suarez's intention was to cause upset to Evra via that word.

And from what's in the public domain, at worst it appears to be little more than tit-for-tat in a mild insults game between the players, with Evra seemingly being ethnically insulting first to Suarez to get that 'negro' response from him.

But of course football fans often have less than half a brain, and with footie fans beong the tribalists that they are even those with a few extra cells are unlikely to put things in a half reasonable context if they're Utd fans.

And in the other direction, if Suarez is cleared then I'm sure that there'll be some Liverpool fans chanting 'liar' or worse at Evra.

Whatever Evra feels might have happened - and I'm not questioning his right to feel racially abused - it's not all necessarily how he feels it was. And if his 'South American' comment was the first straying into ethnically-based insults by either player (which it appears to be from what's in the public domain, tho I realise there might be more that's not come out), then the guy should have had a reality check rather than be making a complaint, on the basis of what goes around comes around.

It's not the sort of case where a judgement either way clears things up because of all the angles to it. Messy, only messy.

[eFestivals]

Still don't know where they'll find any evidence.

I've just read that Suarez has admitted using the word 'negro', so if true that's more than enough of a starting point.

The huge difficulty with that is that in Spanish it means simply 'black', and is often used casually and without any intent of insult. But .. these were two players getting at each other, so the intent might have been there.

Then again, if that use of 'negro' followed Evra saying 'south American' at Suarez, then it's little more than tit for tat really, and if those were the words exchanged as they walked away from the ref when Suarez appears consolatory (while Evra doesn't) then it's likely to be less than that tit-for-tat.

The FA can make their ruling, but the only person who can ever know the truth of things is Suarez himself.

[5co77ie]

Looks like the Suarez findings may now be published tomorrow, the FA have to go to Man U Christmas party tonight. - from LFC forums

Edited December 16, 2011 by 5co77ie

[kaosmark2]

Suarez verdict delayed until Tuesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16186556.stm

[strummer77]

Yeah the rumour was bollocks. The fact it's been delayed shows you how tough this is to judge. I reckon they'll find a way of charging Suarez for abuse but not racism. Short suspended ban. Activated by finger gesture. That or they'll make some huge fuck off ban up for Suarez despite the fact they clearly aren't 100% sure either way.

The FA really shouldn't be dealing with this, racism should be referred to the police or nothing. Put the case in the hands of the right people.

[kaosmark2]

Yeah the rumour was bollocks. The fact it's been delayed shows you how tough this is to judge. I reckon they'll find a way of charging Suarez for abuse but not racism. Short suspended ban. Activated by finger gesture. That or they'll make some huge fuck off ban up for Suarez despite the fact they clearly aren't 100% sure either way.

The FA really shouldn't be dealing with this, racism should be referred to the police or nothing. Put the case in the hands of the right people.

[thetime]

Well could man utd be back in the champions league after all?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16230934.stm

I cant see it happening, interesting story though.

We all know the the champions league rules only get changed for liverpool.

[ralph250]

Said beginning of the season, Bolton could be down there, after losing most of their frontline over the summer (Elmander, Sturridge) and long-term injuries to Holden and Lee. Looks like they're heading for their 13th loss in the prem this season, which when add to 5 consecutive prem defeats at the end of last season, makes 18 defeats in Coyle's last 21 league games in charge.

Can't see them being able to hold onto Cahill this January either. He's been pretty poor this season, but with 6 months left on his contract, and Bolton looking as vulnerable as they are, I can't see them having the financial security to reject a deal even as low as £5-6m. With their finances like they are and high wages/turnover ratio, they're gonna need every penny if do go down.

Edited December 17, 2011 by ralph250

[ralph250]

Well could man utd be back in the champions league after all?

[Kyelo]

Well could man utd be back in the champions league after all?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/16230934.stm

I cant see it happening, interesting story though.

We all know the the champions league rules only get changed for liverpool.

[kaosmark2]

I hope not and can't really see it. Would be way too unfair on Basle. Had Basle been the one to field ineligible players then fair dos, but was a completely different club. Plus if allowed back in and went on to win it, would always be cheapened having been eliminated really.

Best to let it go. Besides, quite looking forward to the Ajax ties.

[pink_triangle]

Can't see them being able to hold onto Cahill this January either. He's been pretty poor this season, but with 6 months left on his contract, and Bolton looking as vulnerable as they are, I can't see them having the financial security to reject a deal even as low as £5-6m. With their finances like they are and high wages/turnover ratio, they're gonna need every penny if do go down.

[ralph250]

Its funny only last summer many were criticsing wenger for not wanting to splash the best part of 20 million pounds on cahill. I bet wenger is glad he trusted his own judgement as opposed to tabloid journalists.

[kaosmark2]

True to a degree. In terms of valuation yeah. In terms of assessing whether good for Arsenal not so much. He was a target and Wenger by his own admission did bid for the player and said that it was higher than the £6m Bolton termed "derisory".

"That number is completely wrong," said Wenger. "If Gartside can say I am lying I am ready to confront him."

http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/14676338.stm

I read in region of £8m with another additional £3-4m in top ups. So will be glad that didn't cave into the media pressure regards price at least. Mertesacker's not really shone yet either from what I've seen of him, though needs to be afforded time to fit in and adjust to the league. I do stand by what I said after Arteta signed though in that they needed at least one person premiership experienced, and if not a defender, then a midfielder. Think Arteta's been quietly instrumental in their comeback. Been a vital continuity player for them. Not flashy, and even quite passive at times, but has provided a good link between Song and Ramsey. Retains possession well, and calms their midfield.

Back to Cahill, not stood out at Bolton this season, which for his rated value you'd hope and expect he would do, but then the whole team's gone to the dogs really. Read a stat today that in the 26 games up to the FA Cup semis they conceded 29, whereas in the 26 games after, they've conceded 59. Perhaps it's indicative of how Cahill performs when the chips are down. Test of him under adversity. Would be surprised to see him not to look to jump ship this January though, especially with Euros coming up and no doubt looking to avoid his stock deflating further. Perhaps it already may have for some of the big teams, but Chelsea were strongly linked in the summer and no doubt Harry thinks he's triffic .

Some would make the argument United possibly in need of an emergency defender, what with Vidic out for the season, Rio's fitness history, the twins injured, and Carrick and Giggs are only fit central midfielders (Anderson, Cleverley, Fletcher all out, Gibson picked up a knock supposedly). Giggs can't play every game, so we're needing Jones and Smalling to fill in elsewhere really at present, so bit riding on Rio's fitness. Think we'll ride through though with what we've got, and if not would rather look elsewhere.

[strummer77]

We all know the the champions league rules only get changed for liverpool.

Edited December 18, 2011 by strummer77

[Steve P]

Gutted about the result, but thought we played very well and it was a superb game.