Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

lets see where skiverpool are (points wise - they will probably be 7th, but thats because of the awfulness of the teams just below them) after the nex 2 rounds of fixtures

Well, the first one didn't go how you were expecting.

Is that the last seven games that Liverpool are unbeaten against the big teams now? They only lose to the lower teams ... which of course includes Spurs.

[The Nal]

Well, the first one didn't go how you were expecting.

Is that the last seven games that Liverpool are unbeaten against the big teams now? They only lose to the lower teams ... which of course includes Spurs.

Edited November 21, 2011 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

Great result from Liverpool yesterday but with a goalscorer they really would've put three or four past Chelski who were fucking appalling at the back. Just shit.

[eFestivals]

Great result from Liverpool yesterday but with a goalscorer they really would've put three or four past Chelski who were fucking appalling at the back. Just shit.

I did have to laugh though - Daglish brought on Carroll for Suarez (who was knackered after the international break) to see the game out, hold the ball up, use his strength etc. He touched the ball twice and fell over both times, giving the ball straight back to Chelsea!!

Liverpool need to spend money on a striker in January. Suarez isnt a goalscorer in his current role, he plays WAY too deep for that, and they cant be relying on right backs to chip in with goals all season. If they get a striker I reckon they could walk into the top four ahead of Chelsea. Lucas was great yesterday, turning into a very good player.

yeah, they defo need a goal scorer - I've been saying that since before last summer. And Carroll was dreadful, tho perhaps if he'd been on from the start he might have got to grips with it being a physical game.

But while they need a goalscorer they're being very mean at conceding (best in the league now I think?), so the lack of goalscorer isn't as damaging as it might be otherwise. If they were to get a decent one in January - and if everything with other teams remains equal (which it won't of course) - then they'd have a pretty good chance at top four.

Chelsea probably aren't finished just yet tho. They've been pretty dreadful in November and December for all the years since Moaniho has been gone, if not for longer. So I expect them to perk up in the new year as they've done in recent years.

As for right backs scoring Liverpool's goals, if Johnson gets injured they'll get even more. Kelly is better all round than Johnson.

[Wooderson]

Is there a more improved player in recent memory than Lucas Leiva?

[Wooderson]

Well, the first one didn't go how you were expecting.

Is that the last seven games that Liverpool are unbeaten against the big teams now? They only lose to the lower teams ... which of course includes Spurs.

[pink_triangle]

Is there a more improved player in recent memory than Lucas Leiva?

[kaosmark2]

I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

you dont need to be an expert in football to realise we need a central midfield overhaul, but thats been the case for about 3 years now. United tried to get scneider but didnt want to pay 200 grand a week for him, and good for them, only city can come close on them figures.

other than central midfield I think were okay everywhere else. full backs we have evera one of the best full backs in the business, not on top form but thatd oesnt mean hes not very good. on the other side rafael has been injured most of the season, yes hes a bit naive but hes only young. The only way he will improve defensively is playing him, so hes going to make mistakes. other than him smalling injured, but again naive in defense but hes only started to pay there so needs time.

its a double edged sword do you let young players gain the experience and leak goals or do you buy a full back full of experience and the finished arctice, but the young players get frustrated(which will happend to paul pogba) and go elsewhere.

[TheGayTent]

As for right backs scoring Liverpool's goals, if Johnson gets injured they'll get even more. Kelly is better all round than Johnson.

[eFestivals]

Side issue for you Neil, whilst I support your attitude towards the CL itself, there is no question that the (futile) efforts of the 2nd tier of teams to qualify for it makes the league a million times more interesting.

oh, defo. It's better now than when those 4 were a shoe-in.

But amusingly it's not got tighter because the following teams have got better (City aside, obviously), but because teams from that 'top 4' have got weaker. Only Utd have managed to sustain their strength.

And it's just about impossible to make any meaningful stab at who the other two teams will be. All of them have their reasons for why it might be them, while at the same time they all have obvious weaknesses that could see them fail.

If I had to make a stab at it right now I'd go for Arsenal and Chelsea, tho I could give a load of reasons for why it might not be.

[The Nal]

But while they need a goalscorer they're being very mean at conceding (best in the league now I think?), so the lack of goalscorer isn't as damaging as it might be otherwise.

[kaosmark2]

oh, defo. It's better now than when those 4 were a shoe-in.

But amusingly it's not got tighter because the following teams have got better (City aside, obviously), but because teams from that 'top 4' have got weaker. Only Utd have managed to sustain their strength.

And it's just about impossible to make any meaningful stab at who the other two teams will be. All of them have their reasons for why it might be them, while at the same time they all have obvious weaknesses that could see them fail.

If I had to make a stab at it right now I'd go for Arsenal and Chelsea, tho I could give a load of reasons for why it might not be.

[Wooderson]

And it's just about impossible to make any meaningful stab at who the other two teams will be. All of them have their reasons for why it might be them, while at the same time they all have obvious weaknesses that could see them fail.

If I had to make a stab at it right now I'd go for Arsenal and Chelsea, tho I could give a load of reasons for why it might not be.

[eFestivals]

Hmm, regardless of whether he is or isn't, it's a pointless debate - for if Kelly is as good as many believe, it won't be long before he plays regularly in his correct position - centre half.

Hmmm ... I'm not so sure about that. He was excellent for Liverpool with the games he got on the right last season, and he's made a great impact for England u21s when playing on the right, scoring in their last two games.

And talking of Liverpool's youngsters, Shelvey is going great at Blackpool too.

[Wooderson]

Carroll is an option, thats all. No different to Mourinho putting Huth up front for the last few minutes.

[kaosmark2]

They've drawn a couple they should've won though, like Swansea at home, if they had a goalscorer. Suarez's conversion rate isn't that good, hes only scored 8 in 25 games for Liverpool, and has had a lot of chances. With the added distribution/crossing ability of Adam and Downing they really need someone in the box. Couple of times yesterday there were a few balls whipped in and there were no red shirts in there.

Suarez is an absolute handful no doubts, but his tenacity, winning of corners and frees, making defenders make mistakes etc, isn't reaping the rewards it should as there isn't someone to pick up the scraps, as Hernandez did at the weekend when Swansea made a mistake due to the defender being hassled.

If Liverpool pick up Llorente from Bilbao (they'd have to cough up 30m+ though) or even risk Negredo from Sevilla (who was great last season), probably available for 10m, and play one of them right up on the line as Rafa did with Torres they could be in business.

Carroll is an option, thats all. No different to Mourinho putting Huth up front for the last few minutes if they were losing or when Ferguson did the same with O'Shea. Massive waste of money. Daglish not playing him in any big games tells its own story really.

[The Nal]

Ouch. Poor Andy. Thats harsh chief.

haha

Edited November 21, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Yeah agreed - but Christmas/January will be telling.

I flipped thru the fixtures till about February yesterday - and I might have got a mistaken impression - but it looked to me as tho Liverpool have got most of their (supposedly) harder games (the ones against the top sides) early in the new year, so from that I could see them at the bottom of that chasing group by the end of January.

Arsenal have become heavily reliant on one player though so that is still dicey. One or two injurys there to the old reliables and theyre screwed.

yep - tho with a few decent players to come back from injury soon-ish an injury to RVP might not be as damaging as everyone is presuming. Gervinho is deferring to RVP at the mo, and while he won't bang them in at the same rate he looks more than capable of getting goals for them.

Chelsea on the flipside could easily blow 50 mill in Jan... transforming their season. Also Torres has to start scoring soon. Doesnt he??!

even without buying they're far from dead and buried - just check their Nov/Dec form in the last few seasons.

If LFC's backroom staff can with the help of some alchemy get Ste G on a pitch we might be in with a shout. A month ago I had more confidence, but as has been said on here numerous times we havent got the goals in us at the moment.

Yep, Liverpool are in with a decent shout of top four even without their best player. There's not many of the teams around them that could do similar, and if Gerrard makes it back playing for a decent chunk of the season they're only likely to get stronger - while the teams around them are quite likely to get weaker thru injuries.

[pink_triangle]

Yep, Liverpool are in with a decent shout of top four even without their best player. There's not many of the teams around them that could do similar, and if Gerrard makes it back playing for a decent chunk of the season they're only likely to get stronger - while the teams around them are quite likely to get weaker thru injuries.

[TheGayTent]

Hmmm ... I'm not so sure about that. He was excellent for Liverpool with the games he got on the right last season, and he's made a great impact for England u21s when playing on the right, scoring in their last two games.

And talking of Liverpool's youngsters, Shelvey is going great at Blackpool too.

[kaosmark2]

I would argue against the statement that Gerrard is still the best player, to me thats suarez without any doubt. I think liverpool can cope without gerrard because he isnt as important as he once was. I think if they lost suarez their best player they would be effected in a similar way to arsenal losing rvp or man u rooney.

[kaosmark2]

In fairness I didn't say it was bad, just not that good. A lot of chances hes had have been after hes just ran 50 yards to get to the ball or has won the ball deeper in the pitch. Not too many where he received the ball in the box. Its not like hes missing sitters every game. Hes not been in the positions to miss sitters. But this is back to my original point about him playing so deep. And you're right, with Kuyt beside him it means he wouldn't have to work so hard and could concentrate on scoring, which he can clearly do. Hes a fantastic talent.

I don't think he does. I think Tony Cascarino had more natural talent.

I think Gerrard will be looking up to pass, see Carroll and think "Nah, bollocks to that... wheres Suarez?!"

[The Nal]

Who's Chelsea's?

[kaosmark2]

Mata? On his day.

[The Nal]

That's the thing though, he hasn't shown the consistency that the likes of Silva, RVP, Suarez have. Very talented, but been pretty on-off so far. Liverpool game summed it up for me really, dreadful first half, great second.