Football 2011-2012

[kaosmark2]

You could put Spain in a group of debt as well,

[The Nal]

David Ginola suing Gerard Houiller over comments about France failing to qualify for WC94.

Said it was Ginola's fault as he misplaced a cross that allowed Bulgaria to launch a decisive counter-attack.

"PSG play at the Parc des Princes. PSG's enemy is Marseille. When he says that Papin and Cantona should not play and that he should play instead... he is a bastard because every time Papin or Cantona touched the ball, they were booed," Houllier wrote.

Easy Gerard!!

Also, good interview with Samuel Eto'o here in the Guardian.

€430,000 a week!

Edited November 16, 2011 by The Nal

[The Nal]

Sepp Blatter:

Asked if he thought there was racism on the pitch, the FIFA president told CNN World Sport: "I would deny it. There is no racism, there is maybe one of the players towards another, he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.

"But also the one who is affected by that, he should say that this is a game. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination.

"I think the whole world is aware of the efforts we are making against racism and discrimination. And on the field of play sometimes you say something that is not very correct, but then at the end of the game, the game is over and you have the next game where you can behave better."

Also, the FA have just charged Suarez!

"The FA has today charged Liverpool’s Luis Suarez following an incident that occurred during the Liverpool versus Manchester United fixture at Anfield on 15 October 2011. It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United’s Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra. The FA will issue no further comment at this time."

Edited November 16, 2011 by The Nal

[Ed209]

Sepp Blatter:

Asked if he thought there was racism on the pitch, the FIFA president told CNN World Sport: "I would deny it. There is no racism, there is maybe one of the players towards another, he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.

"But also the one who is affected by that, he should say that this is a game. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination.

"I think the whole world is aware of the efforts we are making against racism and discrimination. And on the field of play sometimes you say something that is not very correct, but then at the end of the game, the game is over and you have the next game where you can behave better."

Also, the FA have just charged Suarez!

"The FA has today charged Liverpool’s Luis Suarez following an incident that occurred during the Liverpool versus Manchester United fixture at Anfield on 15 October 2011. It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United’s Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra. The FA will issue no further comment at this time."

[eFestivals]

Also, the FA have just charged Suarez!

'kin 'ell! After reading that article the other day I thought that would be it, it seemed a reasonable enough explanation especially for a player who'd played in Holland.

Not that I'm cynical or anything (), but I really should get down the bookies now, to put a bet on that Terry will be cleared as this will create more than enough of a diversion from him being cleared.

[Ed209]

while Terry is obviously a real piece of shit, something inside of me thinks he is actually innocent on this one. In some ways I hope I'm proved wrong and he gets the book thrown at him.

[eFestivals]

while Terry is obviously a real piece of shit, something inside of me thinks he is actually innocent on this one. In some ways I hope I'm proved wrong and he gets the book thrown at him.

I've been hoping they're both proven as false, cos I'd much rather stuff as alleged didn't go on.

I've heard almost nothing of the gossip about what terry's meant to have done, but have heard a version of things that could put it into the 'awful misunderstanding' category - and I've been hoping that's what it is.

But at the same time I'm also aware that Ferdinand supposedly believes it happened, and they both can't be right, and it's probably one of those things where it comes down to someone having to believe one version over another.

I've been really surprised that he's been picked for England, cos the FA could have copped out with a "we'll give kids a chance for these friendlies" without it reflecting too much back on Terry. It's something they'll surely regret if the allegations are proven.

So I was starting to think that he'd get off the hook without it being taken further, tho perhaps only on the basis that it's a "he said/she said" thing. It seems even more likely to me now that he'll get off, cos I couldn't really see 2 cases in such a close period of time both being swept away as unprovable.

[kaosmark2]

What I find really odd about Suarez being charged is the comments that he made a lot later. I'd understand his outburst about 'oh his teammates call him that' if it was straight away, but considering how long it took, he'd have had a fair bit of time to reflect/get advice.

I'm inclined to believe it's the 'frog' comment suggested by someone a few pages back.

[Ed209]

I've been hoping they're both proven as false, cos I'd much rather stuff as alleged didn't go on.

[kaosmark2]

I don't want racism in our game, but i really dislike Terry so a dark twisted side of me wants him to get completely fucked by this.

[Ed209]

I imagine Capello is totally wishing he had never given him the armband back.

[pink_triangle]

No way do the fa find terry guilty, justice for England captains is not the same as justice for the rest, remember shearer and lennon.

[eFestivals]

I'm inclined to believe it's the 'frog' comment suggested by someone a few pages back.

from all the reports, it's not. It's a variation of the 'N' word.

The problem with a charge like this involving two overseas players (it's different with the Terry thing because of that) is that their views of what is racist and what isn't is set by their native culture to a large extent, and what's set by those native cultures is then being ruled on by a third culture.

While it might be nice to think that every.one views these things in a similar way, Blatter's comments only yesterday get to show that they don't. And while it also might be nice to think that people from overseas would pick up on local sensitivities immediately, it would be unrealistic to think that they really do.

So from a British point of view (particularly with Evra having been here a while, while Suarez hasn't) it might well turn out that Evra has a valid complaint, even tho Suarez might genuinely feel (and not thru ignorance of racism, outside of any ignorance of cultural differences towards racism) he's done nothing wrong.

And of course because Suarez was winding Evra up (that part seems beyond doubt) it would be quite easy for people to think that what might have been a genuine non-racist use of 'negrito' (or whatever the word used was) by Suarez was meant with the venom that Evra took it with. Yet it could have been the other words used by Suarez that were meant to be hurtful, with 'negrito' (being used to say 'mate') in there to take the edge off those other words rather than add to the insult.

What seems certain to me - from the TV pics on the day - is that Suarez wasn't being as nasty as simple reports of the incident might imply. He seemed to make a genuine attempt at some sort of reconciliation &/or lessening of the incident after both players had spoken with the ref, but Evra pushed him away (which is understandable considering what Evra appears to believe went on from his side).

Without knowing the full details of what was said it's impossible to guess how things might be considered by the FA, but even with them having those exact details they could make a wrong ruling over what was really meant because of the differing cultural aspects.

[eFestivals]

No way do the fa find terry guilty, justice for England captains is not the same as justice for the rest, remember shearer and lennon.

Yup, and that's a real shame. It means that few people will have much trust that however things pan out with this one that the right conclusion has been reached.

[The Nal]

from all the reports, it's not. It's a variation of the 'N' word.

The problem with a charge like this involving two overseas players (it's different with the Terry thing because of that) is that their views of what is racist and what isn't is set by their native culture to a large extent, and what's set by those native cultures is then being ruled on by a third culture.

While it might be nice to think that every.one views these things in a similar way, Blatter's comments only yesterday get to show that they don't. And while it also might be nice to think that people from overseas would pick up on local sensitivities immediately, it would be unrealistic to think that they really do.

So from a British point of view (particularly with Evra having been here a while, while Suarez hasn't) it might well turn out that Evra has a valid complaint, even tho Suarez might genuinely feel (and not thru ignorance of racism, outside of any ignorance of cultural differences towards racism) he's done nothing wrong.

And of course because Suarez was winding Evra up (that part seems beyond doubt) it would be quite easy for people to think that what might have been a genuine non-racist use of 'negrito' (or whatever the word used was) by Suarez was meant with the venom that Evra took it with. Yet it could have been the other words used by Suarez that were meant to be hurtful, with 'negrito' (being used to say 'mate') in there to take the edge off those other words rather than add to the insult.

What seems certain to me - from the TV pics on the day - is that Suarez wasn't being as nasty as simple reports of the incident might imply. He seemed to make a genuine attempt at some sort of reconciliation &/or lessening of the incident after both players had spoken with the ref, but Evra pushed him away (which is understandable considering what Evra appears to believe went on from his side).

Without knowing the full details of what was said it's impossible to guess how things might be considered by the FA, but even with them having those exact details they could make a wrong ruling over what was really meant because of the differing cultural aspects.

Edited November 17, 2011 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

But if Suarez said "Negrita", and he claims its what Utd team mates call him (eg Hernandez) and thats a common word for "mate" in Latin America, why is Evra still going ahead with this? Why didnt Hernandez explain the situation to Evra? "Nah Patrice, we say it in Mexico all the time, this is what he actually meant...."

[The Nal]

Dunno, guess its all about nuance. Evra has chosen to not take this as a credible explanation for what was said to him. Due to the tone, context etc from his perspective that basis doesnt put his mind at ease. Its a messy one.

One thing that bugs me about the matter is why he hasnt gone to the police about the issue.

Edited November 17, 2011 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

Dunno, guess its all about nuance. Evra has chosen to not take this as a credible explanation for what was said to him. Due to the tone, context etc from his perspective that basis doesnt put his mind at ease. Its a messy one.

One thing that bugs me about the matter is why he hasnt gone to the police about the issue.

[Wooderson]

Could you get a fair investigation and trial for a case involving a Liverpool player in Liverpool though. Look at the gerrard trial, amazingly in a gang of people having a fight, they were all guilty apart from the multimillionaire footballer who played for the team several jury members probably had links with.

[The Nal]

Youre not giving the people of Liverpool credit. If the evidence was significant I think any jury in Liverpool would be disgusted and repulsed irrespective of their allegiance.

[lost]

Youre not giving the people of Liverpool credit. If the evidence was significant I think any jury in Liverpool would be disgusted and repulsed irrespective of their allegiance.

[ralph250]

So from a British point of view (particularly with Evra having been here a while, while Suarez hasn't) it might well turn out that Evra has a valid complaint, even tho Suarez might genuinely feel (and not thru ignorance of racism, outside of any ignorance of cultural differences towards racism) he's done nothing wrong.

[eFestivals]

Will emphasise that I'm not in any way saying Suarez is guilty, and agreed Suarez hasn't been here long, but he's not just off the boat from Uruguay either. He was in Holland for 5 years, so pretty assimilated into western European culture. I'm perhaps assuming Holland has similar views towards racism as England, but I'd be surprised if he hadn't picked up the negative connotations that Negro (or derivatives) has in this part of the world, and probably England specifically.

I know he was in Holland, which is why from the off I've thought it's probably more likely to be something different to the allegations.

Regarding the 'N' word, it gets used a lot 'harmlessly' between blacks - but not whites - in both the USA and UK. It might get used more across skin colours in the same way in other cultures, I don't know. But that's a possibility.

Or Suarez hung out with black players in Holland, and came to use language in the same manner as they sometimes do. Another possibility.

In that article it quotes a very recent case of one pro player tweeting another player and using the word 'negrito' - so it's not unused by footballers in a friendly manner.

If Evra is truthful in Suarez saying Negrito 10 times or more, then to what purpose was Suarez continuing to use the word if clearly causing Evra distress. Equally if Suarez is being truthful in that parts of the conversation was in Spanish and parts English, why not cede using the Spanish word which could be open to interpretation and could contain negative connotations.

pure speculation, but it's the sort of rather daft thing that sometimes happens:- Suarez could see that something he'd said was upsetting Evra and was trying to calm things down by calling him 'mate', but without realising it was that word that was the problem.

Why not just use "mate" in English.

No idea, but it might be as simple as the fact that neither are English.

As Wooderson said, a lot will come down to tone too. Evra might not buy the friendly negrito explaination had, say, Suarez been emphasising the Negr(i) part of Negrito, or with a pause before the "to".

I think far more is likely to be taken from what the whole sentences were where the word was used - which of course isn't likely to do Suarez any favours as he was clearly on the wind up even if he wasn't meaning to be racist.

At the same time though, wouldn't really buy much into Suarez being reconciliatary on the pitch mind. It wasn't really on a reconciliation on his own volition. More been prompted by the Ref's intervention, and threat of a booking. Suarez wouldn't be the first player nor the last to act the angel in front of the ref either (who would've been watching in case if flared up again).

To me (I saw it again last night) it's always looked a genuine consilatory gesture, but yeah, such things do get faked sometimes.

But I don't see the incident like you, that he was doing it to avoid a booking. The manner of the ref looked far more 'having a word, stop it', than 'one little thing more and you're booked' to me, and if it was then that removes most of that motive for faking it.

I'm not trying to favour Suarez, but I can see that there's room for it to be something different to the allegation from cultural angles, and I'm hoping it's that because I'd rather there wasn't racism. Most of all I'd rather the whole thing had never happened cos whatever the outcome it's going to leave a bad taste at some level.

Edited November 17, 2011 by eFestivals

[strummer77]

And while we're talking comedy, check out the picture on FIFA official website re: the Blatter racism row!!

Blatter: Committed to fight against racism

(FIFA.com) Wednesday 16 November 2011

[Stash]

In that article it quotes a very recent case of one pro player tweeting another player and using the word 'negrito' - so it's not unused by footballers in a friendly manner.