Football 2011-2012

[ralph250]

Then he wouldn't have confronted him publicly surely as thats an admission that theres truth to it.

[eFestivals]

Whether or not the quotes are real doesn't really matter. Cass is (was? ) meant to be one of the journalists that Fergie got on well with, so possibility that he may have said something, but if he did it most definitely would've been off the record.

I reckon you're confusing thinking they're off the record with actually saying they're off the record.

I happened to read something somewhere the other day (can't for the life of me think where now) which talked about that difference, and how often if the source doesn't specifically say it the reporter will take the words as being attributable.

From how I work here, I wouldn't dream of breaking an off-the-record request, but if it's not specifically said I might consider using what I was told. More normally I take the trouble to check with the source if & how I can use what they've told me, but there'd be instances where I'd just use it without checking.

I guess life is harder for a tabloid journo where they've got to fill space every day whether there's something to say or not, but I reckon it'd be unusual for an 'embedded' journo who has to deal with the same source continually to abuse something which was said specifically off the record.

If we were in deep negotiations and publishing these quotes (real or not) has jeopardised any chances of a deal, then pretty understandable that Fergie could be pissed off.

oh, I don't disagree. But how he displays his pissed-off-ness can be different.

[eFestivals]

Then he wouldn't have confronted him publicly surely as thats an admission that theres truth to it.

Not necessarily.

For one he probably didn't expect it to be filmed, and secondly it's a good warning to the other journos that were there not to f**k with him.

It could all be as simple as fergie being pissed off that someone had invented words. I'd say it was the length of time the press have stuck with the story despite the denials which says differently the strongest, I don't think too much can be put onto this rant by itself.

[ralph250]

I reckon you're confusing thinking they're off the record with actually saying they're off the record.

I happened to read something somewhere the other day (can't for the life of me think where now) which talked about that difference, and how often if the source doesn't specifically say it the reporter will take the words as being attributable.

From how I work here, I wouldn't dream of breaking an off-the-record request, but if it's not specifically said I might consider using what I was told. More normally I take the trouble to check with the source if & how I can use what they've told me, but there'd be instances where I'd just use it without checking.

I guess life is harder for a tabloid journo where they've got to fill space every day whether there's something to say or not, but I reckon it'd be unusual for an 'embedded' journo who has to deal with the same source continually to abuse something which was said specifically off the record.

oh, I don't disagree. But how he displays his pissed-off-ness can be different.

Edited August 4, 2011 by ralph250

[Wooderson]

Keane's autobiography after Fergie pinched him from Dalglish.

[ralph250]

Mortifying stuff from Kenny.

[Tomo18]

Bolton Wanderers defender Tyrone Mears has been taken to hospital after breaking his leg in training on Thursday morning.

Manager Owen Coyle said: "Ty went in for a challenge and unfortunately suffered the injury.

"It was desperately unlucky for him and we will make sure that he is fully supported in his rehabilitation.

"He will go for a check and an assessment in a month and that will indicate more accurately the timescale for his recovery."

two in a week..looking good

[ralph250]

Bolton Wanderers defender Tyrone Mears has been taken to hospital after breaking his leg in training on Thursday morning.

Manager Owen Coyle said: "Ty went in for a challenge and unfortunately suffered the injury.

"It was desperately unlucky for him and we will make sure that he is fully supported in his rehabilitation.

"He will go for a check and an assessment in a month and that will indicate more accurately the timescale for his recovery."

two in a week..looking good

[eFestivals]

That no-one else ran with the story would imply any conversation (if real) was just between Fergie and Cass. As said, Cass is meant to have a long-standing relationship with Fergie and be one of the journalists Fergie gets on with. He's experienced and will know whats said in confidence and whats not.

from where I'm sat I know it's FAR less simple than you're presuming things to be.

Along with the convos where it's not to be repeated, they'll also be ones where it can be printed. Unless fergie specifically says which it is, how is the journo to know, especially when both sides know that anything said without an off-the-record disclaimer is by default presumed to be on the record?

The journo can try and make presumptions about what is on or off (as I sometimes have to), but they won't ever be perfect even if the journo does take that trouble.

In this instance the journo might well have made that consideration and decided it was probably off .... but if fergie didn't explicitly say it (and he knows how this works just as well as any journo, don't forget!) then it can be reasonably considered to be fair game for printing. And if it was a slow news day with space to fill, what's the journo gonna do?

You're always very sympathetic towards fergie having to get on with his job, but it's no different for any journo who is required to submit stories worthy of publication to fill the space every day - they have their job to do too.

That Cass is saying "do you think I'd quote you, I'll send you copies, you gotta believe me" etc etc implies that he knew anything would be off the record. Chances are either Cass is getting on and has bills to pay so chanced his arm and is now claiming deniability, or the Mail's sub-editor or what not, went with it. Pretty f**king stupid on their part though to shut off their "in" with Fergie for the sake of one article though.

it's hard to decypher the full meanings behind the words, but i'd say it's just as likely saying to fergie that nothing was done that fergie had said not to do.

It's one thing to stretch things - and most people stretch things to their advantage now and then - but another entirely to go fully against someone's explicitly stated wishes. I don't believe an experienced and 'embedded' journo like that would do the latter lightly, so it highly likely to be the former.

I also don't think that an experienced journo like him would pass upwards stuff that he knows isn't to be printed, because once it's out of your hands you have no control over what happens - but I guess there's a number of factors that could exist that could alter that scenario, including the need to print something on a slow news day.

[eFestivals]

Bolton more skillful than Arsenal then?

nah, just a tough team getting themselves and not others for once.

[ralph250]

Neil, I get what you're saying about explicitly stating "it's off the record etc" but a journalist would assess the context case by case.

Behind closed doors negotiations are by definition not for public. To what purpose would Fergie want it aired?

In private negotiations, we're entitled to say "that's the limit of our offer, take it or leave it". There's no outside pressure on Sneijder in making his decision. It's professional, and allows deniability on all sides.

In airing the offer there in public, it gives possibility to Sneijder getting a stigma as a moneygrabber if he rejects it. Equally it gives more weight towards the interest being real, and so United being rejected like some kid at the school disco. Inter fans questioning their club trying to sell off their best players etc.

The Mail running the headline "You blew it Sneijder, insists United boss who is confident with current midfield crop" is hardly going to help persuading Sneijder to come, or facilitate the start of a good working relationship either.

Cass is saying I'll show you the copies, do you think I'd quote you - so either what he sent excluded the identity of the source, or what he sent didn't have the quotes at all and the editor has spruced the article up and inserted them himself.

[lharris92]

apparently stoke are considering making a bid for scott parker...

also birmingham and west ham have offered john carew a contract.

Edited August 4, 2011 by lharris92

[chappiepunk]

I still rate bergkamps goal against a top argentina side in 1998 as the greatest I have ever seen. Its amazing that that team didnt get to a world cup final while the class of 2010 did. I also couldnt believe it last season when some pundits ranked rooneys goal against man city ahead of it.

[chappiepunk]

Bolton Wanderers defender Tyrone Mears has been taken to hospital after breaking his leg in training on Thursday morning.

Manager Owen Coyle said: "Ty went in for a challenge and unfortunately suffered the injury.

"It was desperately unlucky for him and we will make sure that he is fully supported in his rehabilitation.

"He will go for a check and an assessment in a month and that will indicate more accurately the timescale for his recovery."

two in a week..looking good

[chappiepunk]

QPR sign DJ Campbell, another player whos not going to help them stay up, at all.

[eFestivals]

Neil, I get what you're saying about explicitly stating "it's off the record etc" but a journalist would assess the context case by case.

Behind closed doors negotiations are by definition not for public. To what purpose would Fergie want it aired?

The point is that what fergie wants doesn't much matter.

He knows how it works, and if he doesn't explicitly say "this is off the record" then a journo's default assumption is that it's on the record.

I'm not particularly trying to defend what the journo has done or not done - I'm simply stating how it works and how fergie knows that it works like that.

[jammy2211]

Good win for Fulham last night, we didn't play brilliant but it was another getting the job done type of performance and we didn't risk trying to hang on to a one goal lead. We've looked decent this (Sort of) pre-season just still need a striker for when Zamora / Johnson are inevitably unfit.

Champs / Europa league draw in an hour or so though, hope we get a good one. Arsenal find out who they play and they could get a very tricky tie against Rubin or Udinese...

[ralph250]

Udinese for Arsenal then...ouch. Really tough start to the season for them now.

Udinese much weaker currently with Sanchez, Inler and Zapata all sold this summer and Di Natale's 33-34 now, but then equally have around £40-50m to play with, so could be fair bit stronger by the 16th.

Nasri, Van Persie and Wenger are all suspended for the first leg too are they not? plus questionable if Fabregas is there or fit if he is, considering hardly played anything in pre-season. Wilshere possibly out too.

Agree Jammy, that Rubin was the other to avoid. The travel would've been a bitch, and they're pretty organised.

Aug 13th Newcastle away

Aug 16th Udinese home

Aug 20th Liverpool home

Aug 23rd Udinese away

Aug 28th Man Utd away

[TheGayTent]

apparently stoke are considering making a bid for scott parker...

[pink_triangle]

Udinese for Arsenal then...ouch. Really tough start to the season for them now.

Udinese much weaker currently with Sanchez, Inler and Zapata all sold this summer and Di Natale's 33-34 now, but then equally have around £40-50m to play with, so could be fair bit stronger by the 16th.

Nasri, Van Persie and Wenger are all suspended for the first leg too are they not? plus questionable if Fabregas is there or fit if he is, considering hardly played anything in pre-season. Wilshere possibly out too.

Agree Jammy, that Rubin was the other to avoid. The travel would've been a bitch, and they're pretty organised.

Aug 13th Newcastle away

Aug 16th Udinese home

Aug 20th Liverpool home

Aug 23rd Udinese away

Aug 28th Man Utd away

[ralph250]

I actually think the draws not too bad. British teams have got a great record against Italians in recent years and as you have said they have lost their best players. I suspect they will see very little of that money and Arsenal will win comfortably. Im sure Arsneal are better against them than the bolton/stoke team of the draw, whoever htey may be.

[pink_triangle]

Never gonna happen

[metallimuse]

Mon the Jambos!!!

[ralph250]

I think parker is a funny one, even though I feel he was a little overated last season, you would think there would be more interest for the writers player of the season. The trouble is it is his last big move and I think bigger sides will be put off paying his wages considering he would likely end up a squad player while lesser teams wont be able to afford him. He could possibly do a job for a team like everton or villa.

[TheGayTent]

I think parker is a funny one, even though I feel he was a little overated last season, you would think there would be more interest for the writers player of the season. The trouble is it is his last big move and I think bigger sides will be put off paying his wages considering he would likely end up a squad player while lesser teams wont be able to afford him. He could possibly do a job for a team like everton or villa.