Football 2010-2011

[The Nal]

Steve - what do you make of Cescs comments? "I'm a Barca fan, I'm a socio, as is my grandfather, my uncle, my cousin... I have felt the colours from a young age, I'm Catalan"

How soon before Arsenal fans turn on him? Hes very much on the fence here.

[Cardboard Box City]

as was I.

Why is it that you're permitted your opinion on them, but I'm not?

[eFestivals]

I suspect he's heard of them.

He probably has. But it seems some need reminding.

For example, I could have pointed out that the Forbes valuation is based on the Utd fantasy that there's 60,000 certain buyers on a waiting list for season tickets .... yet they've just had to put season tickets on general sale, proving it a fantasy, and hugely changing the valuation that Forbes would give if they made their valuation on facts and not fantasies.

If people don't buy into patent bollox and post it here as certain fact then there'd never be a need for me to make a correction.

[eFestivals]

Steve - what do you make of Cescs comments? "I'm a Barca fan, I'm a socio, as is my grandfather, my uncle, my cousin... I have felt the colours from a young age, I'm Catalan"

How soon before Arsenal fans turn on him? Hes very much on the fence here.

At the end of the day it's no different to all that went on around skippy. We all know it's going to happen, it's just a question of when, and in the meantime the fans will continue to get behind the player.

And just as with skippy (and Beckham too now I think about it), I suspect there's a background agreement in place already, so the player knows how it'll pan out.

[Steve P]

Steve - what do you make of Cescs comments? "I'm a Barca fan, I'm a socio, as is my grandfather, my uncle, my cousin... I have felt the colours from a young age, I'm Catalan"

How soon before Arsenal fans turn on him? Hes very much on the fence here.

[ralph250]

Linked with by who? At the end of the day, the link is one that's only coming from hopeful Utd fans.

I was simply separating dreaming from reality.

Just like with all the world cup bollox - where my own predictions were far closer to the reality than so many of the self-proclaimed 'experts' here (I've avoided gloating till now, but perhaps I should do it regularly, just to keep a few peeps in their rightful place rather than their imaged place?) - come back and tell me I'm wrong when those dreams become reality.

On 1st Sept, I can do some more gloating. If you keep being the same mindless prick I will, and regularly.

[The Nal]

Why revert to insults, when I don't believe I've done anything to justify them.

[ralph250]

No, you have never said where this mysterious cash comes from to cover a player's depreciation. That's because you cannot, because it doesn't happen.

What I think you were trying to say - I chose not to put words in your mouth, instead pointing out the foolishness of what you were saying - but got completely wrong is that Utd's losses look worse on paper than is the trading reality, because of player depreciation being written into the accounts.

But at the end of the day, it's still losses at the rate the accounts say.

[ralph250]

If people don't buy into patent bollox and post it here as certain fact then there'd never be a need for me to make a correction.

[eFestivals]

eg. Any sources for those "real" numbers?

yes, the value of the *real* assets, rather than fantasy ones such as 'goodwill'. There is no 'goodwill' value or future profits value if the club were wound up tomorrow, and the wound-up sell-off price is the only one with real meaning until such time as someone is pressing the readies including the likes of that 'goodwill' value into the seller's hand.

I could fantasise that efests is worth the best part of a million quid (and I once turned down an offer just under that amount). But I'm not so stupid as to think it's worth that to anyone but a fool. And the Glazers claim MU to have spurned an offer of £1.5Bn - so show me the fool; he doesn't exist. It's all bullshit to talk up their position, and hope the rug doesn't get pulled from under them.

Or there's the other standard valuation method - 8 to 10 times the company's profit. That makes Utd worthless (assets aside, minus a few years losses). On that basis it's not a valuable business, it's a vanity toy.

There's one further thing that could be said to be in play, and that's 'future earning potential' (as in growth in profits in the future). Yet Utd is already one of the most exploited brands in the world, so there's very little scope for growth, and many of the ways the brand has been exploited in the past ten years or so have been shown to not make the expected return. Utd have been lucky with this to-date, because they've been able to get paid up-front by what has been them essentially licencing the brand to others - but they won't do as well with this in the future, because it's often not paid off for the licencee.

And finally, things are far FAR less rosey for the future than has been claimed (which applies to all of English football, tho to Utd to a much greater extent than other clubs). The season ticket fiasco has exposed their desperate need for cash right now, as well as blown away the myths about unending supporters willing to pay an ever-increasing amount.

So with the bullshit and over-optimistic hopes removed, the valuation is around what I said, and not what the Glazers would like people to believe.

You're talking potential debt, not current.

nope, current - but everything, not the selective versions. Unless the Glazers found £200M down the back of the sofa () to pay off the very often reported current debts of around £880M (which, given the passing of time, is now £900M+) of the various legal MU entities & Glazer that owe it with (ultimately) the club as surety against them.

Edited July 29, 2010 by eFestivals

[Wooderson]

Utds debts are 700m, the club, as valued by people in the know last week, Forbes - ie not you - valued it at 1.2B. the most valuable sports club in the world. Liverpools debt is 500m with an estimated value, again, not valued by you, of 704m.

[Wooderson]

Another totally Utd obsessed post. Youre really swimming with the sharks when youre piggy backing on nonsense posts from Neil and ignoring the fact the team you follow finished 7th last year, are in a worse financial state than anyone, are not in the Champo League this season and couldnt even win the Europa last season.

But your priority is Man Utd?! Fergie would love that btw.

[eFestivals]

They're players we've been linked with in the press.

Ozil with pretty much every source going.

<snip>

I'm not gonna cede that I've got something wrong, if United don't sign any of these or even anyone else. Not at any time have I said they will. All I've said is possibility that we might sign someone and that room would have to made unless u21.

Why revert to insults, when I don't believe I've done anything to justify them.

I don't doubt that there's been press stories. But surely you know by now they're 99% bollox, thru either an agent trying to engineer their player a move for that agent's benefit but not necessarily the player (the minority), or by reporters who have pages to fill up with something, anything - and so they make up crap. And of course making up crap about Utd sells more papers than making up crap about other teams.

For the stories about Utd right now to have any possible substance they'd also need other stories about which higher value Utd players are on their way out to pay for what comes in - and these aren't there to any extent (that I've seen recently anyway).

There isn't the possibility of those players.

As for insults, I've not chucked any your way (today, at least). Pisstakes yes, but not insults. The one you've quoted was at The Nal, and simply batting something back.

[eFestivals]

I reckon Bristol City need to sign up the rumoured David James, and sign him up quick.

After all, they took a full strength team to Aldershot at the weekend, and had their arses whipped, 3-0.

[ralph250]

nope, current - but everything, not the selective versions. Unless the Glazers found £200M down the back of the sofa () to pay off the very often reported current debts of around £880M (which, given the passing of time, is now £900M+) of the various legal MU entities & Glazer that owe it with (ultimately) the club as surety against them.

[luckysalt]

The press are saying West Brom are closing in on Hull's Myhill

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12040_6285408,00.html

Can't see how this is a good move for him, one they have Crason who will probably be first choice and two if he's moving to get out of the championship back to the Premiership, he's probably gunna go back down with West Brom again at the end of the season

Think its a bad move for Hull too, they must really need the money! They must be regretting signing Bullard so much

[luckysalt]

Mark Hughes confirmed as Fulham manager on a 2 year deal, heard his first signing is gunna be Luke Young for £2.75mil

[eFestivals]

SOURCE!!!!!

You can google just as well as I can.

Tho in fact, you've probably posted links yourself to at least one of those very many newspaper articles which detailed how Utd's debts were £880M. There were loads of articles about it, around 18 months ago. Bad memory?

[eFestivals]

Mark Hughes confirmed as Fulham manager on a 2 year deal, heard his first signing is gunna be Luke Young for £2.75mil

I guess that'll happen, as Young knocked back Liverpool because he didn't want to move north. And who could blame him?

Tho there were stories that Young wanted a pay-off from Villa, cos he'd be on lower wages - so the move to Fulham might not happen I guess.

[eFestivals]

this made me laugh.....

Five thousand unsold 24-carat gold limited edition Frank Lampard signature iPods are to be melted down and rebranded into ones featuring cartoon character Hello Kitty.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3074890/Lamps-iPod-meltdown.html

[The Nal]

this made me laugh.....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3074890/Lamps-iPod-meltdown.html

[pink_triangle]

The press are saying West Brom are closing in on Hull's Myhill

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12040_6285408,00.html

Can't see how this is a good move for him, one they have Crason who will probably be first choice and two if he's moving to get out of the championship back to the Premiership, he's probably gunna go back down with West Brom again at the end of the season

[Cardboard Box City]

Possibly bridge, wright phillips, ireland and santa cruz may also be heading south?

[eFestivals]

Who's lent Fulham a pot to piss in like?

word is that Fayed is financially f**ked (tho that's not new news), with his borrowings greater than his assets. He's recently had to sell off Harrods when repayments on loans became due, and he's been looking to off-load Fulham for around 3 years, but needs it to sell at his fantasy valuation to cover what needs to be paid back. From certain angles it looks like they might be Pompeyed before the end of the season.

If there's going to be any spending on players done, I reckon there's a pot of around £5M at maximum - tho it does look as tho they might get lucky with getting decent prices for players they could offload, which might just give them the funds to pick up the Shitty outcasts which look like being sold at a bargain price.

Edited July 30, 2010 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

So Shamrock Rovers only lost 2 nil to Juve last night. Not bad, Ive never seen such a different in class in any match Ive seen. A load of postmen and part timers. Highlight was the fans singing "You'll never play for Rovers" when Del Piero came on!