Football 2010-2011

[eFestivals]

No. It seems quite simple to me but I will re-phrase it for you:

Are you saying that Utd would be as big as they are now, if they had won f**k all in the last 20 years?

They have a massive brand now, it is driven far more by their success than by any other factor.

Thanks.

Of course they wouldn't be as big. Success helps.

But, to show that winning isn't everything that drives sales, Gerrard shirts sold more than any other English-based player's shirt worldwide (perhaps excluding the UK, I forget) last year - despite the few wins for Liverpool for over 20 years.

So the brand potential for the 'big' teams is massive, whether or not they have success on the field (but as I say, more sales success with success on the field). It's facts like that that has me wondering if LFC might surpass Utd globally if they got their act together both on and off the field.

I'd say Utd's massive global brand isn't hugely driven by just their on-field success. Firstly, they were already a well-known name around the world - and building brand marketing for a well known name is far easier than for an unknown; which is why Chelsea lag behind so much. Secondly, they were first to market with it, meaning that they had almost no competition for quite a number of years.

As I've stated again and again here, success helps - so Utd won't have done so well with it if they'd not had on-field success.

[eFestivals]

There were a few yeah, just checked there

______________________________________________

October 1980 Gary Birtles Nottingham Forest £1,250,000

October 1981 Bryan Robson West Bromwich Albion £1,500,000

June 1988 Mark Hughes Barcelona £1,800,000

August 1989 Gary Pallister Middlesbrough £2,300,000

September 1989 Paul Ince West Ham United £2,400,000

July 1993 Roy Keane Nottingham Forest £3,750,000

______________________________________________

Gary Birtles by the way.

I wasn't thinking pre-fergie, so wouldn't have included Birtles and Robson .... but then again, Robson was a big part of the early Fergie era, and there's no doubting he was a massive player (over-rated IMO, but all the same probably the biggest player of that era outside of some Liverpool ones earlier in the decade).

The two I mentioned that you've not included...

McClair (from wiki): "He joined them for £850,000 in July 1987 — despite Celtic initially wanting £2million for him, a fee which would have made him the most expensive player at the time to have signed for any British club."

So despite the actual cheapness of the fee, I'd say it was fair to say he was a massive signing. That comment about £2M being a record then shows how big the signings of Hughes, Pallister & Ince were too.

Strachan was only £550k, and pre-fergie, both of which surprise me. I'd have put money on him being a fergie signing.

Edited October 14, 2010 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

Strachan was only £550k, and pre-fergie, both of which surprise me. I'd have put money on him being a fergie signing.

[Benj]

Thanks.

Of course they wouldn't be as big. Success helps.

But, to show that winning isn't everything that drives sales, Gerrard shirts sold more than any other English-based player's shirt worldwide (perhaps excluding the UK, I forget) last year - despite the few wins for Liverpool for over 20 years.

So the brand potential for the 'big' teams is massive, .......

Edited October 14, 2010 by Benj

[eFestivals]

That's not entirley suprising, no one's going to buy a Lucas shirt are they!

Im always a bit suspicious of these type of stats how are they measured, does each JJB keep a tally and send it in to FA HQ or something?!

Is there a reliable source at all as to overall sales, it would be v interesting to see. From shirts on the street (living in London) I'd say Liverpool sell the most (deffo more Chelsea round me but you see loads of RS in London, more so than Utd I'd say, I may just notice them more though)

Liverpool are massive, they have not won much in the last 20 years but they have had a number of successes though, without these it would be interesting to see how the brand would've survived the late 00s', with the global book of the Premier League. Peronsally I still think it would be strong, but not near the level it is now as one of the top 5 biggest teams in the world

There's a source for the shirt stats (either in this very thread, or last season's thread), but whether it's accurate I have no idea. The BBC chose to report it tho.

I'm guessing you're a fair bit younger than me. I'd also say you perhaps don't realise just how massive Liverpool were until the mid/late 80s - in real terms they were probably far bigger than Utd are now, because they had no real sustained competition around them (nothing really similar to how Utd are run close by just the same two teams [chelsea & Arsenal] year on year for the last decade). So they dominated things in a way that Utd don't, because Utd's potential dominance in the same way gets taken to some extent by those other teams.

[Benj]

There's a source for the shirt stats (either in this very thread, or last season's thread), but whether it's accurate I have no idea. The BBC chose to report it tho.

I'm guessing you're a fair bit younger than me. I'd also say you perhaps don't realise just how massive Liverpool were until the mid/late 80s - in real terms they were probably far bigger than Utd are now, because they had no real sustained competition around them (nothing really similar to how Utd are run close by just the same two teams [chelsea & Arsenal] year on year for the last decade). So they dominated things in a way that Utd don't, because Utd's potential dominance in the same way gets taken to some extent by those other teams.

[eFestivals]

I suspect Im about the same age or at least close enough (33).

I wish.

Liverpool were huge when I was a boy, I lived abroad (Kenya) until I was 12 (89) and pretty much everyone was an LFC fan (the coonts!).

realistically, that makes you a little young to experienced it at its strongest, particularly if you weren't UK based.

[TheGayTent]

I think that's just cockneys to be honest with you. Don't remember any of that when England weren't playing at Wembley but at Old Trafford etc.

[TheGayTent]

I wasn't thinking pre-fergie, so wouldn't have included Birtles and Robson .... but then again, Robson was a big part of the early Fergie era, and there's no doubting he was a massive player (over-rated IMO, but all the same probably the biggest player of that era outside of some Liverpool ones earlier in the decade).

[eFestivals]

anyway, back to Liverpool.....

The UK court has ruled that H&G must get the Texas injunction lifted by 4pm tomorrow, else they'll be in contempt of the UK court.

Meanwhile, a case is being heard in texas, which either started at 6pm UK time or will start at 7pm UK time, with laywers for the UK end (not sure if that means LFC or RBS) meant to be attending.

It's all quite fascinating, but I do hope things don't go H&G's way. It appears that they're going back on their word left right and centre.

[eFestivals]

I don't think the crap one with the perm was over rated in ths slightest - and that comes from someone who has a personal reason to dislike him.

I guess my view of him is slanted by the player he was at the end of his career, when he rarely kicked the ball but often kicked the player.

[ralph250]

yet we have the likes of ralph posting here giving justification to their financial doings, and believing it'll work out OK (tho I suspect with his fingers firmed crossed behind his back while he does).

At the end of the day, that's of very little difference to the believe LFC fans had in the words of H&G on arrival.

The LFC fans belief passed. I wonder when it'll pass for ralph?

[Cardboard Box City]

Yeah Strachan got shown the door by Fergie.

[ralph250]

That comment about £2M being a record then shows how big the signings of Hughes, Pallister & Ince were too.

Strachan was only £550k, and pre-fergie, both of which surprise me. I'd have put money on him being a fergie signing.

Edited October 14, 2010 by ralph250

[ralph250]

One other thing; not the biggest fan of Rafa and not completely up on my knowledge of their youth setup, but to be fair to him on the academy front, didn't he push to get full control over it, and then poach a couple of the Barca academy coaches involved in developing Messi, Iniesta etc etc in the last couple years. Unlikely to see much improvement in that short amount of time, but might be more healthier going forwards? They picked up a fair few youth players over the summer that are touted aswell did they not: Shelvey, Sterling, Wilson etc.

Rafa didn't exactly bring through much youth, but then pretty sure one of his frequent complaints was that there wasn't enough quality coming through hence him trying to get more involved in it's setup. Bar Spearing and Kelly coming through now (handful of appearances between them), Gerrard's the last academy product isn't he (debut November 1998)

Perhaps the setup did just need an overhaul, which he helped push towards.

Regardless, hope all comes to a positive resolution Wooderson.

[llcoolphil]

Forget how much Shearer obliterated it!

[Benj]

I wish.

realistically, that makes you a little young to experienced it at its strongest, particularly if you weren't UK based.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Benj

[Steve P]

Tremendous bit of business

[5co77ie]

Okay I'm an Evertonian, but I have to say what's happening at Liverpool today (well all week) is amazing! Looks like Hicks & Gillette have sold all their shares to Mill Financial, and now the sale to NESV looks like it could go either way, it's a race to sell before RBS pull the trigger and shoot the club in the head - it's got more action in it than a tense movie script.

[funkymp]

*prays that RBS pull the trigger today*

The dallas court thing is from 1pm onwards isn't it?

[The Nal]

*prays that RBS pull the trigger today*

The dallas court thing is from 1pm onwards isn't it?

Edited October 15, 2010 by The Nal

[5co77ie]

12.

"A lawyer for Liverpool's owners says they will drop their court order in Texas blocking the sale of the club. The move does not mean current owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett have given up their fight to stop the £300 million sale to the owners of the Boston Red Sox.

Lawyer Keith Oliver, who represents Hicks and Gillett, tells The Associated Press they are applying to withdraw the temporary restraining order when the Dallas court convenes at 7 a.m. local time (1200 GMT) Friday."

[ralph250]

Not as good as selling Anelka for 22.5 million and buying Henry for 10. Of for us to do a deal like that again

[ampersand]

Regards Shearer, good bit of business both ways really. A huge amount of money back then for Blackburn and a tremendous acquisition for Newcastle. Would've been interesting to see what would've happened had he decided to join Utd.

[ralph250]

eh, he did