£26,000 Benefit Cap

[eFestivals]

Well for a start I know that type of person... I grew up in an area with many people who do just that...

the relevant question for trying to change such an attitude is to ask yourself why they might do that.

Is it because that area you grew up in is somehow full of people who wish the world to give them a living, at odds with how nearly everyone else acts, and via some sort of miracle all these 'workshy' people have been concentrated into just that area where you grew up?

Or might it be something else, that the way that this country operates gives those people so little hope of being able to 'get on' that they become disenchanted with being able to reach that remote possibility and decide not to bother at all?

How is withdrawing some of their benefits going to change things? .... their opportunities to 'get on' won't have been improved by the withdrawal of benefits, so they're far more likely to look for an alternative 'easy option' (such as crime, perhaps) than they are a job.

If you want people to take opportunities there have to be those opportunities.

You don't want money spent on these people, and yet your attitude is only going to ensure that more money than now will end up being spent on these people.

The problem is not those people and their individual circumstances but the type of society in which they exist which deems them worthless - which your attitude only adds to.

[eFestivals]

No but I might be soon...

Look I get portrayed as some sort of benefit hater. I am not.. I take issue with this small minority of people who have no interest in working or adding to our society and just taking. The vast majority of people receiving benefits are good people needing help.

Your actions reveal your feelings far more than any set of words.

You constantly take issue with what you admit is a "small minority of people" which you claim "have no interest in working or adding to our society and just taking" - and yet those people have not been given the opportunity to work or add to our society.

You never take issue with the people who cause those you wish to view as 'workshy' to be in the position that they're in.

You're far more of a benefit-claimant hater than you are a hater of the greedily selfish. Your actions prove that to be the case.

[kaosmark2]

No but I might be soon...

Look I get portrayed as some sort of benefit hater. I am not.. I take issue with this small minority of people who have no interest in working or adding to our society and just taking. The vast majority of people receiving benefits are good people needing help.

[eFestivals]

But we are talking about a (arguably) reasonable cap and not the removal of all aid...

I want to spend money on these people... I want there lives improved... I want them to play a part!

and yet your idea of how to improve their lives is to penalise their children who will have the idea re-enforced onto them that society doesn't give a shit about them - and so they won't give a shit for society. And so the cycle continues.

We're already onto the 2nd generation of these 'lost' people. How many more decades of applying the same Thatcherist thoughts onto them which caused them to come into existence in the first place will it take before you get to recognise where the problem comes from for it to actually be reversed?

[kaosmark2]

I don't think anyone is worthless...

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Reading through the debate yesterday I find it interesting that Labour tried for an amendment for a system of capping rents to runs landlords pushing them up. Well that obviously seemed unreasonable

[kaosmark2]

Some form of rent control would be a good idea... They did it in New York and it worked well.

[eFestivals]

Can't cut into those precious profit margins for rich multiple property owners.

... especially as if they did, it would also cause house prices to collapse further, pissing off the lowly home-owners who they rely on to vote them into office.

The cure to the high benefit payments problem is blindingly obvious, but politically unacceptable.

And so instead they get the likes of Barry frothing at the mouth about 'scroungers' just to ensure his house price doesn't fall.

The saddest part of it all is that Barry can't see how he's being used, or that a fall in the value of his house would be to his financial benefit and not his detrement.

[feral chile]

Comes across like that sometimes. Moreso with criminals than benefit scroungers, but certainly seems that way.

The big question to come of all this though... why are the government so much more scared of going after the few rich than the masses of poor people?

[kaosmark2]

because of risk assessment. The rich cost more to bring to book, as they're likely to be able to challenge the government legally. So the government will look at the likely (possible) yield against the cost of a court case, and the likelihood of winning against the cost of losing.

I'm sure there'smuch more to it than that though.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Afford better lawyers do you mean?

It all seems ridiculous.

[eFestivals]

the govt are spending twice as much on restoring weekly bin collections as they'll be saving by ensuring that many families on benefits can no long support their children.

Isn't it great to see that they've got their priorities right?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

the govt are spending twice as much on restoring weekly bin collections as they'll be saving by ensuring that many families on benefits can no long support their children.

Isn't it great to see that they've got their priorities right?

[pink_triangle]

I can see both sides of the argument here, I am no fan of the conservatives but they are doing a pretty good job getting their argument across.

I am against a one size fits all benefit cap, i think benefits is a much more complex thing and several factor should be looked into before deciding where these are set.

However I can also see the point of some of the people working for low wages. i can completely understand how they could be annoyed reading that while they scrape through every month, others are paid by taxpayers to live in similar or better houses and afford luixuries thats they cannot. Its fine sayin go after the rich (a concept I agree with) however human nature is people compare themsleves to people in similar position than themselves.

I actually dont have a clue what the solution is and its a decision Im glad I dont have to make!

[pink_triangle]

the govt are spending twice as much on restoring weekly bin collections as they'll be saving by ensuring that many families on benefits can no long support their children.

Isn't it great to see that they've got their priorities right?

[Kyelo]

The aspiration for weekly bin collections seems strange to me, although Im sure some focus groups say its a group winner. For the vast majority of people if you recycle properly you dont need weekly collections. Understand some areas are in a different situation due to the location of the bins, but again cant we judge places on an individual basis.

[feral chile]

The aspiration for weekly bin collections seems strange to me, although Im sure some focus groups say its a group winner. For the vast majority of people if you recycle properly you dont need weekly collections. Understand some areas are in a different situation due to the location of the bins, but again cant we judge places on an individual basis.

[eFestivals]

But if you've got lots of dosh, you buy more stuff and have to get rid of more/have more waste/excess to dispose of. (I would imagine, not being in the fortunate position of knowing this from experience).

it's not about the amount, it's about splitting it so that whatever amount it is is able to be recycled.

The wheelie bin sizes in Bristol are currently being downsized, and the recycling bins up-sized. If you create more rubbish than the wheelie and recycling bins can take the rubbish can be dumped at the council tip for free.

But if you split it properly it's very unlikely that you'd need more bin space.

[feral chile]

it's not about the amount, it's about splitting it so that whatever amount it is is able to be recycled.

The wheelie bin sizes in Bristol are currently being downsized, and the recycling bins up-sized. If you create more rubbish than the wheelie and recycling bins can take the rubbish can be dumped at the council tip for free.

But if you split it properly it's very unlikely that you'd need more bin space.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

In our area we get one wheelie bin for general rubbish, one for recycling and a smallone for biodegradable produce, and there are loads of recycling centres locally. But my daughter's moved to elsewhere in the UK, and she says she has nowhere near the same provision. We have to pay for our carrier bags too in Wales, 5p a bag, which has been very successful in encouraging reusing our carrier bags.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Rufus Gwertigan

[eFestivals]

In our area we get one wheelie bin for general rubbish, one for recycling and a smallone for biodegradable produce, and there are loads of recycling centres locally. But my daughter's moved to elsewhere in the UK, and she says she has nowhere near the same provision. We have to pay for our carrier bags too in Wales, 5p a bag, which has been very successful in encouraging reusing our carrier bags.

yeah, I know the way each council recycles is different - but as each has implemented schemes on an individual basis that's hardly a surprise.

But I've not heard of reasonable complaints from anywhere about there not being adequate space for disposing of a house's refuse no matter which different system is in place. The only complaints coming about that are from when people aren't doing the recycling that's available to them on their doorstep.

[lost]

wierd one for me, my council says don't recycle anything that has been in direct contact with food, though I was recently working away in East Anglia and they were happy to recycle stuff like milk cartons etc..

Edited February 3, 2012 by lost

[feral chile]

We have 4. One for biodegradable which is collected weekly. Then one for paper, one for metal/glass/plastics and one for general stuff. Those are collected in a fortnightly cycle. They will also do 2 big collections (furniture/white goods/decorating waste) per year free of charge and it is £20 per collection for 3 items afterwards. They only charge for replacement of the black/general bin as well :-)

[fred quimby]

Blimey we do alright on recycling

1 for food waste

1 for Cardboard

1 for glass\paper\cans\foil\batteries\plastics (all plastics)

1 for Garden waste

household waste for our family of 4 is a black bin bag every 2 weeks

but as having a right to be collected every week over benefits is plain daft

[Kyelo]

We have...

1 wheelie bin for general waste, collected ever 2nd week.

1 wheelie bin for garden waste, as above but alternating.

1 tub(about a third of a wheelie bin size)for glass/cans/plastic bottles, every week.

1 tub(as above)for cardboard and paper, every week.

Edited February 5, 2012 by BenchBuddah