Football 2025-26

[charlierc]

15 hours ago, andyrhodes24 said:

Set myself up for that one didn’t I 😂

 

There was a very good article on the BBC this week about it, and Kieran Maguire looked at the accounts of League One clubs this week (below). Brum spending £27m in League One is insane, imagine if that gamble had backfired as you say!

 

 

I knew last season, Birmingham and Wrexham having enormous budgets skewed the financial playing field but the several other clubs racking up losses in the millions was just crazy. 

 

People have been wondering for years if the bubble is about to pop but this feels like if you can't keep finding rich people that want to subsidise ever higher losses, some pain is coming. We've all seen the situation with Derby a few years ago or indeed Sheffield Wednesday during this campaign when the money just vanishes. 

[Gnomicide]

17 hours ago, balti-pie said:

I dont have a lot of time for PSG at all but good god, theyve got some wonderful players to watch. Vitinha, Doue and Kvaratskhelia are so much fun. Dembele as well, for entertainment reasons - he doesn't have many days when he's completely on it, but when he is, he's absolutely unstoppable. (just a shame they're such a plastic nonsense of a club, i suppose!) 

 

I'm almost sort of looking forward to seeing them next week, the pain they will likely inflict may temper the enjoyment.

 

I'm expecting a Liverpool v Barcelona 2001 (when Barca turned up with deBoer, Cocu, Rivaldo, Kluivert and Overmars and toyed with us) rather than Liverpool v Barcelona 2019.

[pink_triangle]

10 hours ago, charlierc said:

I knew last season, Birmingham and Wrexham having enormous budgets skewed the financial playing field but the several other clubs racking up losses in the millions was just crazy. 

 

People have been wondering for years if the bubble is about to pop but this feels like if you can't keep finding rich people that want to subsidise ever higher losses, some pain is coming. We've all seen the situation with Derby a few years ago or indeed Sheffield Wednesday during this campaign when the money just vanishes. 

In terms of Wrexham (happy to declare an interest here) spending, I think it’s likely sustainable as long as welcome to Wrexham is on tv. Today it’s been announced a renewal for another 3 years which is a decent level of security, who knows what will happen after. However if the investment dries up we will have a new stand, academy and training pitch, so even drifting back to league one /league 2 would be in a better position than where we were.

 

I think for context while having money to spend clearly helps , the big issue is more clubs spending money badly. People now (wise after the event ) talk that it was inevitable that Wrexham and Birmingham would get promoted. Look at the betting odds at the start of the season Wrexham were from memory around 7th. The likes of Bolton and Huddersfield spent money badly but just poorly.

[charlierc]

15 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

In terms of Wrexham (happy to declare an interest here) spending, I think it’s likely sustainable as long as welcome to Wrexham is on tv. Today it’s been announced a renewal for another 3 years which is a decent level of security, who knows what will happen after. However if the investment dries up we will have a new stand, academy and training pitch, so even drifting back to league one /league 2 would be in a better position than where we were.

 

I think for context while having money to spend clearly helps , the big issue is more clubs spending money badly. People now (wise after the event ) talk that it was inevitable that Wrexham and Birmingham would get promoted. Look at the betting odds at the start of the season Wrexham were from memory around 7th. The likes of Bolton and Huddersfield spent money badly but just poorly.

Tbf I'm aware Wrexham is a unique case thanks to their owners and the array of sponsors they've got, meaning they do have some wriggle room and some scope to subsidise the losses. 

 

It's more on other areas of the league that this looks like there are things to question. Burton Albion racking up over £8million in losses is pretty wild, as is Wycombe coming close to £10million (admittedly the latter's fans have pointed out a lot of that is on infrastructure projects, but still). Hell, play-off winners Charlton topped the £15million loss milestone. I have no doubt these clubs, or a litany of others that posted around £3-5mil losses, currently have owners that can sustain this, but it's more of a case of what exactly is the end point of this.

 

Huddersfield's a fair example tbf given they seem to have been through a few owners recently and spent pretty wildly for not much reward, thanks to two relegations in relatively quick succession after making it to the Prem and seemingly this season drifting away from play-off contention.

[charlierc]

Nike investigating issue with World Cup kits including England - BBC Sport

 

Can't lie, there's something quite amusing about the way this makes it look like something out of 80s fashion.

[thetime]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Nike investigating issue with World Cup kits including England - BBC Sport

 

Can't lie, there's something quite amusing about the way this makes it look like something out of 80s fashion.

 

Price of football shirts nowadays, expensive. 

[kaosmark2]

Bottlejob FC at it again.

[pink_triangle]

I find it funny there are some players that the media absolutely love and have a complete blind spot for. I remember Stevie G was one example and Declan Rice to me is another.

 

Today the commentator said he is always an 8/10, if he has that player he needs to be pulling the team through when the chips are down, that’s what the likes of Keane and Viera used to do.

[kaosmark2]

28 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I find it funny there are some players that the media absolutely love and have a complete blind spot for. I remember Stevie G was one example and Declan Rice to me is another.

 

Today the commentator said he is always an 8/10, if he has that player he needs to be pulling the team through when the chips are down, that’s what the likes of Keane and Viera used to do.

I think Rice before this season was definitely more consistent than Gerrard. I don't know what balance is Arteta putting the handbrakes on Arsenal and Rice fundamentally playing defensive, and what is the player himself, but I do agree that this season he hasn't been at that level.

 

Awful today as well. 

[OllieMadd]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think Rice before this season was definitely more consistent than Gerrard. 

This has to be rage bait

[lost]

I can remember two pretty high profile mistakes for England by Gerrard. The back header/assist for Suarez vs Uruguay in 2014 and then the back pass vs France in EURO 2004. You feel the equivalent mistakes for a goalkeeper would of been career ending at international level and yes the press glossed over them. The slip versus Chelsea though in the league did get enough scrutiny.

[charlierc]

12 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think Rice before this season was definitely more consistent than Gerrard. I don't know what balance is Arteta putting the handbrakes on Arsenal and Rice fundamentally playing defensive, and what is the player himself, but I do agree that this season he hasn't been at that level.

 

Awful today as well. 

Can you directly compare Rice and Gerrard? I thought the latter was always more of an attacking kind of midfielder, least until his later years, where the person who he was always compared with was Frank Lampard. 

[lost]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

Can you directly compare Rice and Gerrard? I thought the latter was always more of an attacking kind of midfielder, least until his later years, where the person who he was always compared with was Frank Lampard. 

 

I think you can on consistency of performance? But yes Englands achilles heel during that period was trying to accommodate Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes when one of them probably needed dropping for a pure holding midfielder.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

Can you directly compare Rice and Gerrard? I thought the latter was always more of an attacking kind of midfielder, least until his later years, where the person who he was always compared with was Frank Lampard. 

My comparison was not really based on position, but more the way the media seem to fall in love with players and give some so much of an easier ride than others.

 

I saw it a few times with Gerrard. I remember there was a phase where the media kept calling him the most “complete” midfield player in the world, it was almost like they made up a trophy and it just started to be taken as fact. I don’t remember significant talk about a “complete” midfielder before or after.  To me Gerrard had strengths and weaknesses like other top midfielders at the time. I remember it even got to the stage where they would make up stats to boost him and for years you would hear the talk of him being a guaranteed 15-20 goal a season player and the stats didn’t back it up. Similar to talk about Rice being 8 out of 10 every game it’s just not true, but almost is repeated as fact.

 

Then you have players like Rooney who the media were happy to pick out the flaws. I just find it interesting how different top player are treated.

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, lost said:

 

I think you can on consistency of performance? But yes Englands achilles heel during that period was trying to accommodate Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes when one of them probably needed dropping for a pure holding midfielder.

If England pick 1-2 of them and have Hargreaves and Joe Cole it would have resulted in a media outcry and better results.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

My comparison was not really based on position, but more the way the media seem to fall in love with players and give some so much of an easier ride than others.

 

I saw it a few times with Gerrard. I remember there was a phase where the media kept calling him the most “complete” midfield player in the world, it was almost like they made up a trophy and it just started to be taken as fact. I don’t remember significant talk about a “complete” midfielder before or after.  To me Gerrard had strengths and weaknesses like other top midfielders at the time. I remember it even got to the stage where they would make up stats to boost him and for years you would hear the talk of him being a guaranteed 15-20 goal a season player and the stats didn’t back it up. Similar to talk about Rice being 8 out of 10 every game it’s just not true, but almost is repeated as fact.

 

Then you have players like Rooney who the media were happy to pick out the flaws. I just find it interesting how different top player are treated.

Yeah exactly, and it's what led to my follow up.

 

Gerrard averaged 8 goals a season didn't he? Maybe if you sample it to exclude start and end of career it'd be 10 but he was nowhere near Lampard's ~15 on the goalscoring front.

 

Rice is a weird one, because I think he is very consistent, but I also think he's more of a naturally attacking player than he's being used at the moment? At his best, he sits deep frequently, but drives forward and makes forward passes and sometimes arrives on the edge of the box for late in a move. I think he's at his best with another holding midfielder so that he's got more license to roam, but this season playing with Zubimendi, both of them and both full backs just stay back behind the ball at all times. Arteta's really put the brakes on that team that he had got playing really attractive football with 2 seasons ago.

 

8/10 is an absurdly high rating to say someone's never below than though. Even though I do think Rice is more consistent than most players/midfielders, a lot of that consistency includes 7/10 performances. And no way was that Bournemouth game yesterday, or the league cup games last year 7/10.

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, lost said:

 

I think you can on consistency of performance? But yes Englands achilles heel during that period was trying to accommodate Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes when one of them probably needed dropping for a pure holding midfielder.

I think the holes in the generation of players of that era is that there were too many weak link positions. There weren't really great alternatives to Rooney & Owen up front, hence Darius Vassell being the back-up at Euro 2004, but left wing really was a problem spot. Scholes was not a left winger, neither really was Joe Cole (although he played out wide a lot, he started off as a through the middle player) and while Stewart Downing had his moments, he wasn't exactly a big name on par with the rest.

 

Tbf, 3 quarter finals in a row wasn't bad under Sven, but it was an era when a lot of nations had squads stuffed with exceptional players in a way I kinda don't think they do now. There's less excuse for Steve McClaren failing to reach Euro 2008 or really Capello's side looking so half-arsed in the group stage in South Africa and it putting England against a German side that were just better on the day. I think at present, there feels like more of a hierarchy where at the elite level, some nations are more stacked than others.

[charlierc]

21 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Rice is a weird one, because I think he is very consistent, but I also think he's more of a naturally attacking player than he's being used at the moment? At his best, he sits deep frequently, but drives forward and makes forward passes and sometimes arrives on the edge of the box for late in a move. I think he's at his best with another holding midfielder so that he's got more license to roam, but this season playing with Zubimendi, both of them and both full backs just stay back behind the ball at all times. Arteta's really put the brakes on that team that he had got playing really attractive football with 2 seasons ago.

I don't think it helps Arteta isn't great at rotations. Saka has looked burned out from being made to play all the time even before his current injury problems, many Arsenal fans think Zubimendi looks to have hit the wall since about January/February, Odegaard seems to have to play all the time when fit, Gabriel & Saliba seem to be becoming less effective of late and I wouldn't be surprised if Rice looks as well like a player that needs time on the bench. The fact they never seem truly happy with their options on left wing might well explain the links with Anthony Gordon in recent weeks.

 

Rice and Zubimendi almost strike me as quite similar tbf - both can do defensive work, both can do offensive work, but putting them together creates a bit if a much-of-a-muchness.

 

There's been a fair amount of debate about whether Arteta is too conservative but I do wonder if Arsenal have created a kind of self-fulfilling anxiety around themselves. The first trophy can sometimes be the hardest to win but it feels at times like mentally, they just do their best to get in their own way. I still think they can win the league tbf - a win at Man City next week may well stop the Man City charge in its tracks. But this really was a case of using up their last joker. Anything less and it could well be gone. Not least as I don't back them in the Champions League - I think PSG or Bayern are favourites for that one.

 

Also, I'd wonder if Arsenal are one of the teams that sum up Platini saying that English teams are "lions in the autumn and lambs in the spring" - essentially a wordy way of saying they start brilliantly but burn out. It's a quote from the late 2000s but the intensity of the PL feels like it is counting against teams to a degree. Lord knows I'm finding that with how worn out Newcastle have looked since Christmas.

[charlierc]

Team that keeps throwing away points from winning positions throws away points from a winning position again. Brilliant.

 

It's one thing that Palace brought on 3 of their best 11 and that helped them grasp control of the game, to say nothing of Mateta's redemption arc given he tried to force his way out in January, but Newcastle just kept repeating their worst trait this season of being defensively hopeless. That's 25 points in PL games thrown away from winning positions this season. Just 5 points more and we'd be level with Everton and Brentford (and hell, depending on where these points come from, probably above Brentford as in both our meetings with them this season, we lost after scoring first). And that's to say nothing of us also getting knocked out of the FA Cup after a game where we scored first and it happening several times in the Champions League as well.

 

Our game management this season is just not good enough and the defensive numbers are also pretty shambolic - a team that concedes 78 goals in all competitions is not going to go anywhere. Hell, in retrospect, the clues were there given we conceded 13 in our pre-season friendlies, much as I know you shouldn't read that much into those. Just... yuk. Maybe it might be for the best to clear house for next season given I genuinely felt some of the players we had on today couldn't be arsed.

 

Ah well, onward to Bournemouth I suppose. Seeing as we've used up our games against Spurs as they continue to slide down the surface of things.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Team that keeps throwing away points from winning positions throws away points from a winning position again. Brilliant.

 

It's one thing that Palace brought on 3 of their best 11 and that helped them grasp control of the game, to say nothing of Mateta's redemption arc given he tried to force his way out in January, but Newcastle just kept repeating their worst trait this season of being defensively hopeless. That's 25 points in PL games thrown away from winning positions this season. Just 5 points more and we'd be level with Everton and Brentford (and hell, depending on where these points come from, probably above Brentford as in both our meetings with them this season, we lost after scoring first). And that's to say nothing of us also getting knocked out of the FA Cup after a game where we scored first and it happening several times in the Champions League as well.

 

Our game management this season is just not good enough and the defensive numbers are also pretty shambolic - a team that concedes 78 goals in all competitions is not going to go anywhere. Hell, in retrospect, the clues were there given we conceded 13 in our pre-season friendlies, much as I know you shouldn't read that much into those. Just... yuk. Maybe it might be for the best to clear house for next season given I genuinely felt some of the players we had on today couldn't be arsed.

 

Ah well, onward to Bournemouth I suppose. Seeing as we've used up our games against Spurs as they continue to slide down the surface of things.

I didn't watch today's game but the noises from the board of "we back Howe but expect a strong end to the season" make me think these issues carrying on will lead to a change of management. I think Howe's work over recent seasons has been incredible, but for this season the excuse (more given by fans) has been "bad summer preparation and playing twice a week with no break", and with the exact same problems coming after 3 weeks of no games against a team who played 3 days ago looks really bad.

 

I realise there can't be insane amounts of work done given half of those 3 weeks some players were at internationals, but while I think Woltemade and Elanga are players that should be able to click if given time to work together, it's not like Howe picked them today. Our entire starting line-up looks inherently defensive with the 3 most defensively inclined midfielders all on the pitch together. 

 

How did Miley look coming back?

[thetime]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Team that keeps throwing away points from winning positions throws away points from a winning position again. Brilliant.

 

It's one thing that Palace brought on 3 of their best 11 and that helped them grasp control of the game, to say nothing of Mateta's redemption arc given he tried to force his way out in January, but Newcastle just kept repeating their worst trait this season of being defensively hopeless. That's 25 points in PL games thrown away from winning positions this season. Just 5 points more and we'd be level with Everton and Brentford (and hell, depending on where these points come from, probably above Brentford as in both our meetings with them this season, we lost after scoring first). And that's to say nothing of us also getting knocked out of the FA Cup after a game where we scored first and it happening several times in the Champions League as well.

 

Our game management this season is just not good enough and the defensive numbers are also pretty shambolic - a team that concedes 78 goals in all competitions is not going to go anywhere. Hell, in retrospect, the clues were there given we conceded 13 in our pre-season friendlies, much as I know you shouldn't read that much into those. Just... yuk. Maybe it might be for the best to clear house for next season given I genuinely felt some of the players we had on today couldn't be arsed.

 

Ah well, onward to Bournemouth I suppose. Seeing as we've used up our games against Spurs as they continue to slide down the surface of things.

 

This will not make you any more positive this evening.

 

[charlierc]

51 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I didn't watch today's game but the noises from the board of "we back Howe but expect a strong end to the season" make me think these issues carrying on will lead to a change of management. I think Howe's work over recent seasons has been incredible, but for this season the excuse (more given by fans) has been "bad summer preparation and playing twice a week with no break", and with the exact same problems coming after 3 weeks of no games against a team who played 3 days ago looks really bad.

 

I realise there can't be insane amounts of work done given half of those 3 weeks some players were at internationals, but while I think Woltemade and Elanga are players that should be able to click if given time to work together, it's not like Howe picked them today. Our entire starting line-up looks inherently defensive with the 3 most defensively inclined midfielders all on the pitch together. 

 

How did Miley look coming back?

Miley got the cross in that produced the goal and seemed ok. So that's a positive. Joelinton got his 10th yellow of the season so will miss Bournemouth and Arsenal, which is less helpful.

 

But yes. It felt from comments by the CEO a week or two ago that either we qualify for Europe or we change manager, and this was a bad start for Howe towards meeting that expectation. Even though it's been 3 weeks since the derby, it felt like the players just ran out of legs after 70-odd minutes. Howe choosing not to make any subs until the equaliser didn't help. So I don't know. I appreciate that the fact everyone's been pummelled into submission by the amount of games we've played this season, but at some point, it stops being an excuse people will buy. Hell, early last month, we beat Man Utd and Chelsea, so there was some kind of rally there.

16 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

This will not make you any more positive this evening.

 

Aye saw that. Although even just 6 points from winning positions back in our tally and we'd be above Brentford and Everton. Hell, we lost home and away to Brentford in games where we scored first on both occasions, so even just flipping those two results and we'd be above Brentford in the table. But ya know - if, if, if, if. There comes a point where you stop caring about hypotheticals and just want results.

 

It does feel like Howe has burned through the goodwill from last season tbh. I don't want to make a change for the sake of it and respect Howe did an exceptional job for us but this season, we keep making the same mistakes over and over again. It's fair that the boardroom churn that compromised our ability to sign players early last summer and Isak's tantrum set this season up to be difficult before it started, but our defensive organisation all season long has been just shambolic. 

 

This has the air of being a big summer with key players likely to leave, either due to age or due to Champions League clubs turning players' heads, and I think the power brokers have to ask a question on whether Howe is up to the task of leading a rebuild. Whether I trust an ownership group who come across as very slow to do anything to get the right appointment in time in the event Howe is told to go away is another matter.

Edited April 12 by charlierc

[balti-pie]

I thought Spurs were knackered back when they lost to Fulham and Palace inside four days, immediately after getting smashed by arsenal - it wasnt necessarily the NLD defeat, it was the complete lack of response to that that made me think nah, they've got no bollocks, there's nothing in this team whatsoever. I dont think they'll win again this season, and i for one embrace the Championship and the amount of change it'll bring.

 

Change in that there'll be a different twenty teams beating us 😄 

[kaosmark2]

23 hours ago, charlierc said:

Miley got the cross in that produced the goal and seemed ok. So that's a positive. Joelinton got his 10th yellow of the season so will miss Bournemouth and Arsenal, which is less helpful.

 

But yes. It felt from comments by the CEO a week or two ago that either we qualify for Europe or we change manager, and this was a bad start for Howe towards meeting that expectation. Even though it's been 3 weeks since the derby, it felt like the players just ran out of legs after 70-odd minutes. Howe choosing not to make any subs until the equaliser didn't help. So I don't know. I appreciate that the fact everyone's been pummelled into submission by the amount of games we've played this season, but at some point, it stops being an excuse people will buy. Hell, early last month, we beat Man Utd and Chelsea, so there was some kind of rally there.

Aye saw that. Although even just 6 points from winning positions back in our tally and we'd be above Brentford and Everton. Hell, we lost home and away to Brentford in games where we scored first on both occasions, so even just flipping those two results and we'd be above Brentford in the table. But ya know - if, if, if, if. There comes a point where you stop caring about hypotheticals and just want results.

 

It does feel like Howe has burned through the goodwill from last season tbh. I don't want to make a change for the sake of it and respect Howe did an exceptional job for us but this season, we keep making the same mistakes over and over again. It's fair that the boardroom churn that compromised our ability to sign players early last summer and Isak's tantrum set this season up to be difficult before it started, but our defensive organisation all season long has been just shambolic. 

 

This has the air of being a big summer with key players likely to leave, either due to age or due to Champions League clubs turning players' heads, and I think the power brokers have to ask a question on whether Howe is up to the task of leading a rebuild. Whether I trust an ownership group who come across as very slow to do anything to get the right appointment in time in the event Howe is told to go away is another matter.

I think given the huge managerial merry go round expected, between a bunch of managers at big clubs changing, the world cup freeing up/taking managers for national teams, and a swarm of mid-table managers doing well and probably moving, it'd be quite stupid to stick with Howe and not at least explore the manager market unless he's got clear ideas of how to solve the problems of this season, and can communicate them to that CEO and ownership group etc.

[thetime]

30 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think given the huge managerial merry go round expected, between a bunch of managers at big clubs changing, the world cup freeing up/taking managers for national teams, and a swarm of mid-table managers doing well and probably moving, it'd be quite stupid to stick with Howe and not at least explore the manager market unless he's got clear ideas of how to solve the problems of this season, and can communicate them to that CEO and ownership group etc.

 

Can see Slot going there, once liverpool sack him in the summer. 

Edited April 13 by thetime