Football 2025-26

[pink_triangle]

15 hours ago, charlierc said:

I was referring to transfer spend as an alleged £30m in transfer fees this year is decent change for the second tier, although yeah, I can imagine wage spending isn't quite at the level as any club with parachute payments.

I think that needs some context though which I think is often missing. An example being that the Birmingham manager (who has underachieved this season) talking about Wrexham spending over the last 12 months. What he of course doesn’t mention is the 12 months before Birmingham (already preparing for championship) spent around 35 million compared to Wrexham around 5 million and were only a few million off this season. We know that teams get rid of all their players every season, so this is very relevant in terms of spending, but of course doesn’t fit the narrative the Birmingham manager wants.

 

One reason Wrexham’s net spend was high is moving up the league so quickly  means we had no sellable assets, so it is pure spending. I would argue in terms of championship whether we finish 6th, 7th or 8th, it will be an overachievement  based on overall financial resources. I certainly think we have no financial advantage over Birmingham, Sheff U and Leicester who are lower.

 

Interestingly last season we were 60 percent wage bill/turnover which was second lowest in the league , I suspect we will be lower end in the championship as well.

[thetime]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think that needs some context though which I think is often missing. An example being that the Birmingham manager (who has underachieved this season) talking about Wrexham spending over the last 12 months. What he of course doesn’t mention is the 12 months before Birmingham (already preparing for championship) spent around 35 million compared to Wrexham around 5 million and were only a few million off this season. We know that teams get rid of all their players every season, so this is very relevant in terms of spending, but of course doesn’t fit the narrative the Birmingham manager wants.

 

One reason Wrexham’s net spend was high is moving up the league so quickly  means we had no sellable assets, so it is pure spending. I would argue in terms of championship whether we finish 6th, 7th or 8th, it will be an overachievement  based on overall financial resources. I certainly think we have no financial advantage over Birmingham, Sheff U and Leicester who are lower.

 

Interestingly last season we were 60 percent wage bill/turnover which was second lowest in the league , I suspect we will be lower end in the championship as well.

 

Wrexham have done well, they are where they are because of new money but done well. Without the new owners coming in, they would be nowhere near the championship. That being said recruitment and management has been spot on. 

 

Fans need to embrace that new owners have given you success, rather than the 'yeah but'. Newcastle fans do it, City fans do it, Chelsea fans did it in Roman Abromovic era. Nothing wrong in getting rich owners to accelerate success, as there's some right dodgy ones. 

 

[lost]

on Championship spending I know its the beeb gossip column but I saw a couple days ago Coventry are looking at dropping £200m including getting Conor Gallagher if Spurs go down. The general spending of the yo-yo/championship clubs must really frustrate some of the other european leagues. A top performer for athletico last year who are in the top competitions semi-final this year being linked to a team who have not been in our top division for 25 years

[pink_triangle]

29 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

Wrexham have done well, they are where they are because of new money but done well. Without the new owners coming in, they would be nowhere near the championship. That being said recruitment and management has been spot on. 

 

Fans need to embrace that new owners have given you success, rather than the 'yeah but'. Newcastle fans do it, City fans do it, Chelsea fans did it in Roman Abromovic era. Nothing wrong in getting rich owners to accelerate success, as there's some right dodgy ones. 

I think we have the best owners around and have basically hit the jackpot. We are currently fairly self sufficient in terms of wages, due to the amount of money we can make commercially. Whether the model lasts long term who knows, but if we have a new generation of fans , a rebuilt stadium, a training ground and an academy, which will benefit us long term.

 

We absolutely had a huge financial advantage in the national league and league 2. You had teams like Huddersfield in league 1 who were financially competitive, however we were still the second highest spenders behind Birmingham.

 

You are correct therefore in saying we would not be in the championship without money . However as I have said there are teams in the championship who have invested more money into their teams and just spent it badly. We have generally spent our money well, which is why we have spent significantly less than Birmingham over 2 seasons but are higher in the league this season. We certainly don’t have any kind of financial advantage over the parachute payment teams.

 

So I agree with your argument that money spent well has got us to the championship. I would however disagree that we have a significant advantage now. Online sites (not sure how reliable) have our wage bill around 12th.

 

 

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, thetime said:

Wrexham have done well, they are where they are because of new money but done well. Without the new owners coming in, they would be nowhere near the championship. That being said recruitment and management has been spot on. 

 

Fans need to embrace that new owners have given you success, rather than the 'yeah but'. Newcastle fans do it, City fans do it, Chelsea fans did it in Roman Abromovic era. Nothing wrong in getting rich owners to accelerate success, as there's some right dodgy ones. 

Obviously it'll seem different with me saying it now we're a new money club, but I've never really had huge problems with the 'new money' side of things. City just haven't annoyed me at all really. Chelsea have, but that's a combination of standard bitterness, and back in 04-06 knowing 3 people who changed the team they supported to Chelsea as the Abrahamovich money came in and they started winning. 

 

PSG are much more likeable since they stopped trying the Galacticos style transfer business and actually built a team (yes I'm aware of Hakimi's rape charge and I'm not minimising that).

[thetime]

23 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I've never really had huge problems with the 'new money' side of things. 

 

Me neither, thats with me being a supporter of a team where its directly hindered. 

 

All fans have a right to dream. I mean it hasn't made Newcastle fans insufferable and arrogant, they always have been. 😂

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Me neither, thats with me being a supporter of a team where its directly hindered. 

 

All fans have a right to dream. I mean it hasn't made Newcastle fans insufferable and arrogant, they always have been. 😂

Tbf I think some of us had that arrogance knocked out of us by the 2009 relegation and the truly dismal experience of being a Toon fan in the 2010s (2011/12, 2016/17 and a few noteworthy wins here and there excluded).

 

Some of our fans can be a bit much though, I concede. I don't think we're quite as high on the scale as some others but they absolutely exist and can be annoying.

[charlierc]

5 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think we have the best owners around and have basically hit the jackpot. We are currently fairly self sufficient in terms of wages, due to the amount of money we can make commercially. Whether the model lasts long term who knows, but if we have a new generation of fans , a rebuilt stadium, a training ground and an academy, which will benefit us long term.

 

We absolutely had a huge financial advantage in the national league and league 2. You had teams like Huddersfield in league 1 who were financially competitive, however we were still the second highest spenders behind Birmingham.

 

You are correct therefore in saying we would not be in the championship without money . However as I have said there are teams in the championship who have invested more money into their teams and just spent it badly. We have generally spent our money well, which is why we have spent significantly less than Birmingham over 2 seasons but are higher in the league this season. We certainly don’t have any kind of financial advantage over the parachute payment teams.

 

So I agree with your argument that money spent well has got us to the championship. I would however disagree that we have a significant advantage now. Online sites (not sure how reliable) have our wage bill around 12th.

 

 

I mean, the Championship is a basket case of a division where everyone is losing substantial amounts of money and where it feels like everyone is trying to keep up with the parachute payment recipients. And indeed I say that as someone whose club did get parachute payments in 2016/17 to help cushion the blow of substantial losses racked up.

 

So yeah, having money to spend helps. But I agree the Hollywood owners have unquestionably done a good job - they've got 4 promotions in a row, are still in the mix for a 5th, look like they have the buy-in of fans, back the manager, have got a decent chunk of commercial income, are upgrading facilities, etc, etc. I think they deserve kudos tbf. I know there's cynicism about the Disney+ series and the way it's packaged, but the deal has been good to Wrexham and I still find it quite something that Deadpool and one of The Gang from Always Sunny have turned Wrexham's fortunes around in quite a dramatic way.

Edited April 28 by charlierc

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

 

 

So yeah, having money to spend helps. But I agree the Hollywood owners have unquestionably done a good job - they've got 4 promotions in a row, are still in the mix for a 5th, look like they have the buy-in of fans, back the manager, have got a decent chunk of commercial income, are upgrading facilities, etc, etc. I think they deserve kudos tbf. I know there's cynicism about the Disney+ series and the way it's packaged, but the deal has been good to Wrexham and I still find it quite something that Deadpool and one of The Gang from Always Sunny have turned Wrexham's fortunes around in quite a dramatic way.

Unfortunately it’s only 3 promotions and I think the 4th may be a step too far, but I’m quite happy with the championship. I think it’s probably the best league there is for the fan experience.

 

While a lot will be annoyed behind the rise of the mens team, it is quickly forgotten the impact it has beyond the league table . I grew up as one of only a few Wrexham fans in school while everyone supported Liverpool, Everton and Man U, now you go in the town centre and every kid supports their local club. Tourists come in to pubs and hotels to support the local economy. The women’s team have qualified for the champions league for the first time and now girls in north wales have footballing role models that look like them. To me these things are every bit as important as finishing 6th , 7th or 8th.

[thetime]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Tbf I think some of us had that arrogance knocked out of us by the 2009 relegation and the truly dismal experience of being a Toon fan in the 2010s (2011/12, 2016/17 and a few noteworthy wins here and there excluded).

 

Some of our fans can be a bit much though, I concede. I don't think we're quite as high on the scale as some others but they absolutely exist and can be annoying.

 

I find the Newcastle arrogance strange, when you think they didn't win a trophy for 70 years. 

 

Totally get the Liverpool, utd, Arsenals and even teams like Leeds and Villa. But Newcastle fans. 

 

 

Edited April 28 by thetime

[Crazyfool01]

great semi final this 🙂 

[charlierc]

19 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

great semi final this 🙂 

They're having all the goals while Atletico and Arsenal play out a 0-0 tomorrow huh. 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Unfortunately it’s only 3 promotions and I think the 4th may be a step too far, but I’m quite happy with the championship. I think it’s probably the best league there is for the fan experience.

 

While a lot will be annoyed behind the rise of the mens team, it is quickly forgotten the impact it has beyond the league table . I grew up as one of only a few Wrexham fans in school while everyone supported Liverpool, Everton and Man U, now you go in the town centre and every kid supports their local club. Tourists come in to pubs and hotels to support the local economy. The women’s team have qualified for the champions league for the first time and now girls in north wales have footballing role models that look like them. To me these things are every bit as important as finishing 6th , 7th or 8th.

My bad for adding an extra promotion in a row. Still an excellent achievement though. And yeah I found the Championship a compelling spectacle on the two visits Newcastle have made down there in my lifetime. 

 

Plus yeah, all these other details also add to the way this is a compelling impact on the local community. 

[thetime]

27 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

great semi final this 🙂 

Just the 16 goals in Bayerns last 2 CL games. 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

 

I find the Newcastle arrogance strange, when you think they didn't win a trophy for 70 years. 

 

Totally get the Liverpool, utd, Arsenals and even teams like Leeds and Villa. But Newcastle fans. 

I think a lot of our fans from the Keegan years have the arrogance as if we'd won then. I mostly view it as a reason to bitch about Man U, but I think there's the expectation that the near-misses from the 90s and early 00s count as equivalent success when they just don't. A bunch of 2nd places in the league and FA Cup runners ups are irrelevant to anyone outside your own fanbase.

[gary1979666]

7 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think a lot of our fans from the Keegan years have the arrogance as if we'd won then. I mostly view it as a reason to bitch about Man U, but I think there's the expectation that the near-misses from the 90s and early 00s count as equivalent success when they just don't. A bunch of 2nd places in the league and FA Cup runners ups are irrelevant to anyone outside your own fanbase.

As a Mackem, who went to school in Newcastle in the 90's, I can attest to the arrogant fans.  I did love the sequential FA cup losses though.

However in adult life, all the Geordie's I've met have been really pleasant with it and good friendly footie banter.  It's Liverpool, Man U and Spurs that seem to have the knobby fans now - (present company excepted, of course!)

[thetime]

Talking about Newcastle and last night's game. Remember the 4-3 Liverpool game, just a great game of football. 

 

Now its micro analysis of bad defending, rather than just enjoying an amazing game. Even my wife who doesn't like sport was engrossed. 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

Talking about Newcastle and last night's game. Remember the 4-3 Liverpool game, just a great game of football. 

 

Now its micro analysis of bad defending, rather than just enjoying an amazing game. Even my wife who doesn't like sport was engrossed. 

As a curious coincidence, today is 30 years to the day since Keegan's "I will love it if we beat them" speech. Another one of those moments from 95/96 that went into PL title folklore. I think the main thing it did was energise Nottingham Forest, given they got demolished 5-0 by Man Utd a few weeks earlier then held Newcastle to a 1-1 draw in the next game after that rant at Leeds. 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

As a Mackem, who went to school in Newcastle in the 90's, I can attest to the arrogant fans.  I did love the sequential FA cup losses though.

However in adult life, all the Geordie's I've met have been really pleasant with it and good friendly footie banter.  It's Liverpool, Man U and Spurs that seem to have the knobby fans now - (present company excepted, of course!)

Honestly, I mostly just think kids make obnoxious fans 90% of the time. The ones that stick with their club through a downturn tend to be a bit more tolerable. 

 

I think Man U fans are less obnoxious now than 5-10 years ago, though it's probably more that the obnoxious ones have mostly shut up after several years of them being crap. 

1 hour ago, thetime said:

Talking about Newcastle and last night's game. Remember the 4-3 Liverpool game, just a great game of football. 

 

Now its micro analysis of bad defending, rather than just enjoying an amazing game. Even my wife who doesn't like sport was engrossed. 

If we're going to remember high-scoring Newcastle games, can we focus on the 4-4 vs Arsenal? That Tiote goal!

 

I think the commentators just wanted to find things to criticise. The defending wasn't even that bad, the Diaz and both Kvarta goals were absolute worldies. Set piece defending was a lil worse sure but it was just a cracking game with really high quality football.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

I think the commentators just wanted to find things to criticise. The defending wasn't even that bad, the Diaz and both Kvarta goals were absolute worldies. Set piece defending was a lil worse sure but it was just a cracking game with really high quality football.

 

Nuts that Liverpool sold Diaz. 

[thetime]

2 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

I think Man U fans are less obnoxious now than 5-10 years ago, though it's probably more that the obnoxious ones have mostly shut up after several years of them being crap. 

 

I find the ones on X entitled, only footy chat I go to apart from this thread. Its usually the fans that started supporting from early 90s onwards. Those who supported them in the 70s and 80s are a bit more level headed. Bitter towards Liverpool and Leeds, but apart from that. 

[Skip997]

7 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

Nuts that Liverpool sold Diaz. 

This keeps coming up, people seem to have forgotten that he wanted to leave, presumably because one season under the Dutch fraud was enough 

[thetime]

1 hour ago, Skip997 said:

This keeps coming up, people seem to have forgotten that he wanted to leave, presumably because one season under the Dutch fraud was enough 

 

Reports I saw is he wanted a big pay rise. 

[charlierc]

18 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Nuts that Liverpool sold Diaz. 

They must've taken the logic that 75 million Euros for a 28 year old was too good to turn down. And yet here we are with him arguably playing better in Munich while Liverpool look in need of options on that left flank. Hence presumably why they got linked with Anthony Gordon among others. 

[charlierc]

23 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

As a Mackem, who went to school in Newcastle in the 90's, I can attest to the arrogant fans.  I did love the sequential FA cup losses though.

However in adult life, all the Geordie's I've met have been really pleasant with it and good friendly footie banter.  It's Liverpool, Man U and Spurs that seem to have the knobby fans now - (present company excepted, of course!)

I know this isn't quite the point but Sunderland captain Lee Clark turning up to the 1998 FA Cup final in an SMB t-shirt was quite the way to get yourself sold. Though given he was a boyhood Newcastle fan who'd been a first team regular, I'm surprised he was willing to move across the divide in the first place. 

 

There's always a degree of arrogance in local rivalries anyway tbf. Plus I think Newcastle in the 90s had that period of being painted as future champions and that Sky hype of being everybody's second team. So it probably did go to people's heads. Now, I think every fanbase even as far down as the National League will have the odd fan who thinks they support by far the greatest team the world has ever seen and that only a grand conspiracy is denying them their greatness. Even as a Mag I think a lot of our fans are fairly measured but my word do we have some arrogant berks in our corner. I'm aware it's also different to something like F1 or boxing where arrogance seems to come across as an essential.