UK Politics

[Neil]

34 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

  trans activists of telling a big lie

dunno what big lie you're referring to, but i can think of several they like to use.

[Neil]

i've got a cousin who lives in Norfolk who i rarely see, turns out he's a hardcore kipper so I've been taking the piss out of him on Facebook, he tells me we've not left the EU, and we still send them membership money. i guess that's the stupid kipper angle on 2024.

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Saying that Mein Kampf is quoted so as to describe a target minority in the same way as Hitler described the Jews isn't a good thing?

But you used the article as justification for grouping LGB Alliance with white supremisists and the reported comments  don't support that. Basically the reported comments (not even LGB Alliance as you implied) were feminists accusing trans activists of using the same tactics as Hitler in Mein Kampf. So they weren't postive about Mein Kampf they were negative.

I don't know about LGB alliance so I looked at their website. The list of trustees and patrons are establishment figures. They include longstanding gay rights activists and feminists and a Labour peer who used to be a trade union leader. Their main concern seems to be keeping a definiton of being gay and lesbian based on same sex attraction.

Its quite sad really. Two groups of gay rights/feminist activists who probably agree on 90% of stuff shouting nazi and facist at each other.

 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

But you used the article as justification for grouping LGB Alliance with white supremisists and the reported comments  don't support that. Basically the reported comments (not even LGB Alliance as you implied) were feminists accusing trans activists of using the same tactics as Hitler in Mein Kampf. So they weren't postive about Mein Kampf they were negative.

I don't know about LGB alliance so I looked at their website. The list of trustees and patrons are establishment figures. They include longstanding gay rights activists and feminists and a Labour peer who used to be a trade union leader. Their main concern seems to be keeping a definiton of being gay and lesbian based on same sex attraction.

They were using the exact phrasing Hitler said about the Jews about trans people. And as a reminder, trans people were also targeted in the holocaust.

The thing is, hate groups don't publicly start their arguments by saying "lets murder our targets". They start with something softer, and usually something that actually is reasonable, and then claim their target are trying to take that away. And they are a hate group.

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

Its quite sad really. Two groups of gay rights/feminist activists who probably agree on 90% of stuff shouting nazi and facist at each other.

This bit I agree with. The thing is though, LGB Alliance are defining themselves by the exclusion of trans people and the removal of intersectionality from queer rights and feminism. Their very existence is focused on fighting against trans people having rights in society. They work with literal fascists - literally with people who take away abortion rights, and equate queer people with paedos.

Maintaining intersectionality is vital when fighting for human rights and fighting against the patriarchal systems. Rejecting that leads us nowhere.

[steviewevie]

Green surge

 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Green surge

 

the kippers are more popular!

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Green surge

 

much like the corbyn election problem, the greens will find their votes are in the wrong places to be electorally successful.

[steviewevie]

6 hours ago, Neil said:

the kippers are more popular!

more popular than Lib Dems too

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

more popular than Lib Dems too

The LDs will benefit from the Tory collapse but they should be doing much better.

[steviewevie]

[Neil]

4 hours ago, Ozanne said:

The LDs will benefit from the Tory collapse but they should be doing much better.

they won't do so well if tory vote switchers vote reform.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Don't forget Ukip still exist so Reform are no 'kippers'

Reform were created by people who did not think Ukip were radical/right enough and members of Britain First joined up.

So Ukip and Reform are different beasts, both racist but one far more racist and nasty than the other. The fact that 10-15% of people might vote for Reform says all too much about the state of the UK.

i think most of their voter think they're voting ukip. also lots of ex-kippers reckon we haven't left the EU yet.

[lazyred]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I hope Starer holds firm on this. The New Deal for Workers has already been watered down and is still under attack from business and now the Blairites. This seems to be part of the reason for the recent briefing against Sue Gray. She's taken against the Blairites who thought they would control Starmer's office in power and sided with Angela Raynor on workers rights.

[steviewevie]

55 minutes ago, lazyred said:

I hope Starer holds firm on this. The New Deal for Workers has already been watered down and is still under attack from business and now the Blairites. This seems to be part of the reason for the recent briefing against Sue Gray. She's taken against the Blairites who thought they would control Starmer's office in power and sided with Angela Raynor on workers rights.

Rayner Vs Reeves

[steviewevie]

 

[lost]

He isn't going in on Galloways Workers party then? I also noticed tweets from the social democratic party following Ron Liddle on question time. They appear to most inline with how I'd describe the working class / red wall. Economically left wing but socially conservative.

[Neil]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:47 PM, Neil said:

jeremy spelling mistake has been shooting his gob off

as someone brought up in the neighbouring constituency  i know hes right about how much many people in farnham, guilford, etc earn. full on commuter belt with  bankers, spooks and civil servants (as abuilding trade I  once  [about 1980] worked on a big  posh house [with servants quarters] just outside of farnham, where the owner was a doctor who had been the queens doctor). lots of houses round there with servants quarters.

more from the spelling mistake....

Quote

house prices averaging around £670,000 in my area

 

[steviewevie]

54 minutes ago, lost said:

He isn't going in on Galloways Workers party then? I also noticed tweets from the social democratic party following Ron Liddle on question time. They appear to most inline with how I'd describe the working class / red wall. Economically left wing but socially conservative.

that isn't where Jones or other Corbynites are though...they are left on both economics and social stuff.

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Most Corbynites are still in the Parliamentary Labour Party. Very few left/were thrown out.

They just toes the new line like good boys and girls do in Parliament.

yes, they wouldn't stand a chance breaking off and forming own party...I kind of meant voters.

I guess there is a chance Corbyn/Abbott could form a new party, and get backing from momentum or part of it...and support from Jones and Novara media lot. There is potential for that...but that would just end up splitting left vote and do more harm to Greens as well as Labour.

Anyway, I think Jones is looking to what happens after election  if Labour get a landslide but end up being sh*t.

[lost]

27 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

that isn't where Jones or other Corbynites are though...they are left on both economics and social stuff.

Havent a clue where the workers party on are on the social stuff. Are they also socially consevative as they are courting the muslim community on palestine.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

Havent a clue where the workers party on are on the social stuff. Are they also socially consevative as they are courting the muslim community on palestine.

they are socially conservative, yes.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they are socially conservative, yes.

the main appeal for the muslim community was Gaza...but workers party are also anti-trans and anti net zero which may appeal to a range of different people. In Rochdale they had different pamphlets for muslim areas and white areas.

Jones has said that he doesn't support a lot of Galloway's stuff.

 

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they are socially conservative, yes.

so is the uk (which labour leftists always miss), so its probably not a bad place for a political party to be.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

the main appeal for the muslim community was Gaza...but workers party are also anti-trans and anti net zero which may appeal to a range of different people. In Rochdale they had different pamphlets for muslim areas and white areas.

Jones has said that he doesn't support a lot of Galloway's stuff.

that's cos jones is not socially conservative, this alliance of convenience is likely to go horribly wrong.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Voters of 'left' parties seem far less willing to change who they vote for. Ukip then Brexit Party now Reform all have big chunks follow them when they are fed up of the Tories.

When people on the left are fed up of Labour they tend to vote Labour or not vote

I think at moment for a lot of lefties the priority is getting the tories out, but if Labour have been in for a while and the left feel like they are not getting what they want that may change.