UK Politics

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

her plan is to not be as sh*t as the tories, or fall for brexit bollocks, like larry elliott did!

Is that Labour's new slogan? We're not as sh*t as the Tories.

[Neil]

Just now, Ommadawn said:

Is that Labour's new slogan? We're not as sh*t as the Tories.

it would be a pretty good one, if they tried making a bigger promise it'd be false cos the tories have f**ked thing s up so bad its gonna be hard to correct.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Exactly. No plan on how to achieve it.

no plan she wants to give away to the tories

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

Exactly. No plan on how to achieve it.

There is a plan, supply side stuff...planning etc, but he and Graham argue it won't lead to something transformational and the rapid growth required. There's some good stuff in there, it isn't neo-liberal or New Labour or Thatcher fgs, workers rights, net zero etc...but overall if she doesn't achieve this rapid growth, and with her sticking with the same fiscal rules as this govt, then we're looking at either spending cuts or higher taxes, or most likely a mix.

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

There is a plan, supply side stuff...planning etc, but he and Graham argue it won't lead to something transformational and the rapid growth required. There's some good stuff in there, it isn't neo-liberal or New Labour or Thatcher fgs, workers rights, net zero etc...but overall if she doesn't achieve this rapid growth, and with her sticking with the same fiscal rules as this govt, then we're looking at either spending cuts or higher taxes, or most likely a mix.

New Labour said they’d stick with Tory fiscal plans too then after a year or 2 moved away from them. Labour will do the same again I’d imagine. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

New Labour said they’d stick with Tory fiscal plans too then after a year or 2 moved away from them. Labour will do the same again I’d imagine. 

Not sure about fiscal rules around debt etc, but they stuck with previous govt tax/spend pledges for a couple of years...but also they inherited a healthier economy, growth etc...

[steviewevie]

Rishi's relaunch going well...

 

[Crazyfool01]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

Just watched his speech and I pretty well agree with everything he says tbh … he gets derided on here a fair bit . But I really don’t want another Tory party . Let’s hope there’s a plan to move away from some of the policy’s of the Tory’s but even if they do they aren’t being straight with us 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

It does seem crazy that Labour are being 'more Tory' so they can be elected and if as other suggest they are then going to do things differently to what they say how will that build trust as they will rightly be labelled liars.

Why can't a party campaign on what they REALLY want to do rather than just trying to be like someone else for fear of being questioned too much?

I’d have hoped that they’ve created some wiggle room now so they have some freedom to have gone less Tory . The lead is pretty massive so is more of the same what the country needs . 

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Just watched his speech and I pretty well agree with everything he says tbh … he gets derided on here a fair bit . But I really don’t want another Tory party . Let’s hope there’s a plan to move away from some of the policy’s of the Tory’s but even if they do they aren’t being straight with us 

Did he talk about his ancestors?

Owen Jones kind of sums up a lot of the corbynite left...basically still bitter that they had control of Labour and then lost it. Starmer has proven that he is ruthless in pursuit of power, and in that ruthlessness has upset many lefties. In politics though there always have to be compromises, you can't get everything you want.

But policy wise, if you squint hard enough, there is policy there. New workers rights. Net zero goals. State owned renewable energy company. National wealth fund for investment. Nationalisation of railways when contracts up for renewal. We all want him to say we will spend more on everything...but then the opposition ask where this money comes from and all of a sudden the wheels start coming off. 

Or is Jones' main gripe Gaza and that Starmer lbc interview and the whole ceasefire thing? Because yes we all want a ceasefire, everyone wants it to stop...but leaving a party who's influence on this is negligible at the most seems ridiculous to me, especially as Labour's position has moved to calling for a ceasefire as things have deteriorated further.

[stuie]

9 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

Exactly. No plan on how to achieve it.

Is it a new thing to expect full manifestos before the sitting dead duck has even announced when there’s going to be an election? 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

that's an extra million votes for labour having lost the sixth form socialist.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Owen Jones kind of sums up a lot of the corbynite left...basically still bitter that they had control of Labour and then lost it.

nailed it - too stupid to realise it was them that f**ked it up, not an anti-left  conspiracy

[Neil]

29 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

As for 'more of the same' - if the last 75 years of pretty much that have not shown the electorate that more of the same brings little real change then the electorate wants what the electorate gets.

if you want people to learn from history, why don't you expect that from the leftist faction within labour?

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Or is Jones' main gripe Gaza and that Starmer lbc interview and the whole ceasefire thing? Because yes we all want a ceasefire, everyone wants it to stop...but leaving a party who's influence on this is negligible at the most seems ridiculous to me, especially as Labour's position has moved to calling for a ceasefire as things have deteriorated further.

wonder if jones has asked his friends to put their guns and rapist willies down?

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but then the opposition ask where this money comes from and all of a sudden the wheels start coming off. 

the anti-starmer s can find the money either.

[Crazyfool01]

41 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Did he talk about his ancestors?

Owen Jones kind of sums up a lot of the corbynite left...basically still bitter that they had control of Labour and then lost it. Starmer has proven that he is ruthless in pursuit of power, and in that ruthlessness has upset many lefties. In politics though there always have to be compromises, you can't get everything you want.

But policy wise, if you squint hard enough, there is policy there. New workers rights. Net zero goals. State owned renewable energy company. National wealth fund for investment. Nationalisation of railways when contracts up for renewal. We all want him to say we will spend more on everything...but then the opposition ask where this money comes from and all of a sudden the wheels start coming off. 

Or is Jones' main gripe Gaza and that Starmer lbc interview and the whole ceasefire thing? Because yes we all want a ceasefire, everyone wants it to stop...but leaving a party who's influence on this is negligible at the most seems ridiculous to me, especially as Labour's position has moved to calling for a ceasefire as things have deteriorated further.

Oh sure understand why he’s saying what he does and the frustrations and who knows if it’s the best move tbh . Maybe a more left party will emerge from labours shadows in time . I don’t think that’s a bad thing . Too late for this election 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Oh sure understand why he’s saying what he does and the frustrations and who knows if it’s the best move tbh . Maybe a more left party will emerge from labours shadows in time . I don’t think that’s a bad thing . Too late for this election 

They well might do, and then lose an election.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

They are scared of things like this - just 12 months ago and shows how easily the gap can close if the right message is used.

The Tories still have their back up weapons primed and ready to use as well:
Starmer wanted to stop Brexit and of course the very scary 'C' word which still makes some people scared of Labour even though the man is no longer even in the party.

As for 'more of the same' - if the last 75 years of pretty much that have not shown the electorate that more of the same brings little real change then the electorate wants what the electorate gets.

Thatcher wasn't more if the same.

[steviewevie]

Thing with labour is a lot of the polling is anti Tory at moment, Starmer is not popular...so unless things visibly improve for a lot of people they could well be replaced by a more right populist party...Tory/reform coalition anyone?

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Is it a new thing to expect full manifestos before the sitting dead duck has even announced when there’s going to be an election? 

I don't want a full manifesto - of course not. However, all I'm hearing from Labour are just aspirations with very little on how they plan to achieve those objectives. Quite important to know this don't you think?  Why should traditional Labour voters who voted Tory last time change back if they don't know how (or most probably if) Labour will reach those objectives. I know there's still a few months until the election but I would still expect to have some idea on what to expect.

[Neil]

10 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I don't want a full manifesto - of course not. However, all I'm hearing from Labour are just aspirations with very little on how they plan to achieve those objectives. Quite important to know this don't you think?  Why should traditional Labour voters who voted Tory last time change back if they don't know how (or most probably if) Labour will reach those objectives. I know there's still a few months until the election but I would still expect to have some idea on what to expect.

if they cared about those objectives they wouldn't have voted tory last time. 😛 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

They are scared of things like this - just 12 months ago and shows how easily the gap can close if the right message is used.

The Tories still have their back up weapons primed and ready to use as well:
Starmer wanted to stop Brexit and of course the very scary 'C' word which still makes some people scared of Labour even though the man is no longer even in the party.

As for 'more of the same' - if the last 75 years of pretty much that have not shown the electorate that more of the same brings little real change then the electorate wants what the electorate gets.

🙂

Edited March 21, 2024 by Ommadawn