Love the farm , Leave no Trace

[Spindles]

39 minutes ago, Ben7amin_ said:

Anyone who has been to Shambala will know that place is the gold standard for this stuff - they nail it every year on the taking stuff home. 

Croissant neuf summer party used to be great.  I worked the last one they held and there was 1 tent left behind, almost no mess in the campsites.  It took us about 2-3 hours in a big push on the Monday to clear the entire site.

[Crazyfool01]

11 minutes ago, incident said:

 

To be fair to Skip, on this one he's right.

is it not the fact its never been the case at Shambla ... so anyone doing so would be very much shamed , whereas at Glastonbury sadly thats not yet become the case . 

[philipsteak]

18 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

I knew it would annoy people and I stress I’m not having a go at people on here and of course there are plenty of conscious people at Glastonbury. There are also plenty of people who don’t give a toss. We’ve been educated and encouraged for a very long time. Most campers will have an example nearby where people are cleaning up their mess and taking everything home. 
 

Sadly too many can’t be educated. You see this in the “outside” world again. Look at how much rubbish is lying in our hedges, look at our low rates of recycling. 
 

The bottom bit is completely true, a different class of punter is the main difference 

 

Fly-camping in the Lake District (and presumably other areas too) has got so so bad. A newish thing at the scale it's happening now, definitely got a LOT worse since COVID.

I'm not usually one for collective punishment but when people talk about the right to roam and access rights I sometimes wonder if we deserve it. (Just to be clear, I don't actually believe this. But sometimes...)

[incident]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

is it not the fact its never been the case at Shambla ... so anyone doing so would be very much shamed , whereas at Glastonbury sadly thats not yet become the case . 

 

Maybe that plays in to it to an extent.

 

But I do think the general ethos of the festival as a whole, and the punter that is subsequently attracted to the festival is going to be a bigger factor.

[Skip997]

Just now, philipsteak said:

 

Fly-camping in the Lake District (and presumably other areas too) has got so so bad. A newish thing at the scale it's happening now, definitely got a LOT worse since COVID.

I'm not usually one for collective punishment but when people talk about the right to roam and access rights I sometimes wonder if we deserve it. (Just to be clear, I don't actually believe this. But sometimes...)

It became a huge problem on Dartmoor, a couple of areas have completely banned camping. There is now a blanket ban on camper vans. 

[philipsteak]

Just now, Skip997 said:

It became a huge problem on Dartmoor, a couple of areas have completely banned camping. There is now a blanket ban on camper vans. 

 

Technically wild camping isn't allowed here either but it's historically been tolerated. In fact I'd say more than tolerated as long as certain rules are followed. But the explosion of fly-camping is starting to sway people against even that.

And there are various bans too, especially on campervans. They just aren't enforced.

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

 

Technically wild camping isn't allowed here either but it's historically been tolerated. In fact I'd say more than tolerated as long as certain rules are followed. But the explosion of fly-camping is starting to sway people against even that.

And there are various bans too, especially on campervans. They just aren't enforced.

Following a recent court case in which a landowner tried to reverse a centuries old right to camp on Dartmoor with minimal restrictions, it’s now legal to camp on most of the moor. 

[DeanoL]

57 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

They do some sort of recycling bond thing, can’t remember the details. They have also banned people from taking “abandoned” stuff. Although there’s never any.

 

As stated above, the real difference (and this will annoy many, but is the truth) is an overall better class of punter. 

Could be. Could also be as simple as a much shorter walk back to the car.

 

Someone mentioned earlier the campervan fields were spotless. Even with Glastonbury-class punters staying in them. 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Could be. Could also be as simple as a much shorter walk back to the car.

 

Someone mentioned earlier the campervan fields were spotless. Even with Glastonbury-class punters staying in them. 

The better class of punter (overall) is evident in so many more ways than clean fields at the end of the event. 
 

The first time I went to Shambala I was on the verge of giving up on festivals. Within about 12 hours I realised that there are still some people about who know how to do it. 
 

I know I’ll never convince people. But I recommend you go and find out. 

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

The better class of punter (overall) is evident in so many more ways than clean fields at the end of the event. 
 

The first time I went to Shambala I was on the verge of giving up on festivals. Within about 12 hours I realised that there are still some people about who know how to do it. 
 

I know I’ll never convince people. But I recommend you go and find out. 

Maybe you should spend your time in the Shambala forum/ thread instead of coming on here everyday to moan about everything and anything.

[DeanoL]

8 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

The better class of punter (overall) is evident in so many more ways than clean fields at the end of the event. 
 

The first time I went to Shambala I was on the verge of giving up on festivals. Within about 12 hours I realised that there are still some people about who know how to do it. 
 

I know I’ll never convince people. But I recommend you go and find out. 

It's not my sort of music though I'll admit I had a similar experience attending Machynlleth Comedy Festival.

[Skip997]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

Maybe you should spend your time in the Shambala forum/ thread instead of coming on here everyday to moan about everything and anything.

Maybe you should butt out. I’m not moaning about anything I’m stating a fact that overall the Shambala crowd is more conscious than the Glastonbury crowd. Neither am I aiming this at 100% of the Glastonbury attendees, obviously there are plenty “who get it”, conversely there plenty who don’t. At Shambala very nearly everyone gets it. 
 

 

[philipsteak]

32 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Following a recent court case in which a landowner tried to reverse a centuries old right to camp on Dartmoor with minimal restrictions, it’s now legal to camp on most of the moor. 

Yeah I remember that

[rock_on]

9 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Maybe you should butt out. I’m not moaning about anything I’m stating a fact that overall the Shambala crowd is more conscious than the Glastonbury crowd. Neither am I aiming this at 100% of the Glastonbury attendees, obviously there are plenty “who get it”, conversely there plenty who don’t. At Shambala very nearly everyone gets it. 
 

 

 

Then go crow about that on the Shambala forum, I'm not sure what the point of posting in here about it is? 

[Skip997]

Just now, rock_on said:

 

Then go crow about that on the Shambala forum, I'm not sure what the point of posting in here about it is? 

1. I don’t need to “crow” about it on the Shambala forum, those who know, know.

2. I didn’t bring it up, someone else did 

3. If we really want to improve the situation at Glastonbury, then surely it’s good to highlight an example of an event where it works. Maybe this will give those that care hope. 

[Ben7amin_]

1 hour ago, Crazyfool01 said:

What’s the difference ? Do they incentivise stuff ? Would it ever be scalable for Glastonbury ? Maybe an age thing but I think it’s a snowball thing like if you are only one of a few doing it then the embarrassment becomes too much 

 

Il jump back in here even though the convo has got heated on the Shambala comparisons. This is a good question im happy to do my best to answer

 

There is some validity to what Skip is saying but i think id go with a different main demographic as opposed to class of attendees As the fact is a large % of the Shambala attendees probably attend Glastonbury aswell.

 

In case your not famillar as a rough comparison to Glastonbury id describe Shambala as the Glastonbury Greenfields + South East Corner with a bit of West Holts.   

 

Even though id say a lot of what Shambala has to offer is also available at Glastonbury the fact that the prevalence of certain areas like for instance Shambala's equivilant to Greenfields takes up a much larger (35%-40%) of the festival -  Which basically means a larger number of the punters for Sham are coming for that as a feature. Where a im sure people do come to Glastonbury for the Greenfields (but id be willing to bet its a tiny % compared to sham).  

 

I think its a fair stereotype to say people at Glastonbury who spend most of the weekend in the green fields are probably likely to be  the ones making a mess of there tent.   (happy to be challenged on this if people know different)  

 

and this is what i think the difference is (no idea if this makes sense, happy to try and elaborate further if not) 

 

So no incentives 

I think the age demo for sham and glasto is similar they both go young to old

I think its mostly based on the reasons they are choosing the festival 

 

so i dont think whats happens at sham its scalable as Glastonbury has a much wider range of things that attract people - 

 

 

 

 

  

 

[stuie]

1 hour ago, Crazyfool01 said:

is it not the fact its never been the case at Shambla ... so anyone doing so would be very much shamed , whereas at Glastonbury sadly thats not yet become the case . 

 

Shambala isn't an entry point festival - I'm generalising but people at Shambala will be experienced and more mature festival goers, like Noisily, Mucky etc.  Smaller events that are more word of mouth or niche rather than massive and heavily advertised events do attract the best of the crowds. 

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

Shambala isn't an entry point festival - I'm generalising but people at Shambala will be experienced and more mature festival goers, like Noisily, Mucky etc.  Smaller events that are more word of mouth or niche rather than massive and heavily advertised events do attract the best of the crowds. 

Out of reactions. This is a great and really valid point 

[rock_on]

Looks like Richard Madeley's daughter is part of the problem...

 

 

[paulshane]

3 minutes ago, rock_on said:

Looks like Richard Madeley's daughter is part of the problem...

 

 

looks like you didn't read the article.

[Crazyfool01]

2 hours ago, Ben7amin_ said:

 

Il jump back in here even though the convo has got heated on the Shambala comparisons. This is a good question im happy to do my best to answer

 

There is some validity to what Skip is saying but i think id go with a different main demographic as opposed to class of attendees As the fact is a large % of the Shambala attendees probably attend Glastonbury aswell.

 

In case your not famillar as a rough comparison to Glastonbury id describe Shambala as the Glastonbury Greenfields + South East Corner with a bit of West Holts.   

 

Even though id say a lot of what Shambala has to offer is also available at Glastonbury the fact that the prevalence of certain areas like for instance Shambala's equivilant to Greenfields takes up a much larger (35%-40%) of the festival -  Which basically means a larger number of the punters for Sham are coming for that as a feature. Where a im sure people do come to Glastonbury for the Greenfields (but id be willing to bet its a tiny % compared to sham).  

 

I think its a fair stereotype to say people at Glastonbury who spend most of the weekend in the green fields are probably likely to be  the ones making a mess of there tent.   (happy to be challenged on this if people know different)  

 

and this is what i think the difference is (no idea if this makes sense, happy to try and elaborate further if not) 

 

So no incentives 

I think the age demo for sham and glasto is similar they both go young to old

I think its mostly based on the reasons they are choosing the festival 

 

so i dont think whats happens at sham its scalable as Glastonbury has a much wider range of things that attract people - 

 

 

 

 

  

 

no objection to the shambla mentions at all ... seems to be a bastion of good practice and thats where learning can come from ... it needs to be scalable to the size of Glastonbury  and that seems to be a big factor . However I differ slightly and dont think people are a lost cause whatever age . maybe some things need to change in the messaging from the festival maybe the campsites need great big warning signs , maybe there needs to be some preemptive warning to those leaving camping areas in a sh*tty condition . its pretty clear the ones that will get abandoned in the end . although not sure thats fair on volunteers though to enforce . 

[rock_on]

18 minutes ago, paulshane said:

looks like you didn't read the article.

It was behind a paywall earlier. Managed to read it now.. fair enough.

Edited July 10, 2025 by rock_on

[SPW]

I did an ad-hoc shift at The Other Stage on the Thurs and even then the numbers pissing on the grass, against the hedge etc. just along from the toilets and urinals was ridiculous. It was busyish but no acts were on obviously and no real wait to speak of at the toilets so it was pure laziness or whatever. I couldn't get my head around it at all. Saw similar in same place last year when there was music on but wasn't in the numbers doing it on that day. I spent most of my shifts at the Pyramid and when I used the urinals there tbf I didn't see anyone pissing anywhere but in the trough (whereas did see people go against the 'wall' last year)... Poss just luck in my timing.......

[Worky_gla]

Need to bring back the piss police or whatever they were called (green police?) always found that hilarious the first couple i attended not sure if it had a noticeable impact on folk doing it or not though