news & politics:discussion

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

just sell off a load of the royal land .... saves us money as taxpayers , more into the pot for spending and more land for social housing 

This.

And, properly tax high earners and the rich, increase council tax on second homes, enforce tax payment on corporations and reduce the military budget.

Done

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yes, but this is the green new deal, an industrial strategy to grow the economy. You borrow to invest, and from that investment comes growth. That is the idea anyway.

But, problem is we already have a large debt, nearly 100% of GDP, and the cost of paying back that debt has gone up...so it is a big problem if we don't get any growth, and it is a problem if the fiscal rules restricting everything is to get debt coming down within 5 years (i.e. one term), because that will just make everything a lot harder, especially because, as you say, everything needs money. 

So, looks like Labour's promise to the country will be they really would like to do lots of nice things but can't, sorry.

Of course they could raise loads of money by taxing wealth...

Labour have plenty of good policies that will greatly improve people’s lives and improve the country. They won’t be able to do everything they want to do because of time and also because the Tories have wrecked the economy which a lot of people seem to be ignoring. Look at the Tories (the actual government) cancelling green policies, some of the people moaning about Labour now said nothing back then. It’s reasons like this that I feel some people aren’t being completely honest about things.

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Labour have plenty of good policies that will greatly improve people’s lives and improve the country. They won’t be able to do everything they want to do because of time and also because the Tories have wrecked the economy which a lot of people seem to be ignoring. Look at the Tories (the actual government) cancelling green policies, some of the people moaning about Labour now said nothing back then. It’s reasons like this that I feel some people aren’t being completely honest about things.

you keep saying 'some' people. Who exactly are you referring to and for what purpose do you think they are lying?

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Labour have plenty of good policies that will greatly improve people’s lives and improve the country. They won’t be able to do everything they want to do because of time and also because the Tories have wrecked the economy which a lot of people seem to be ignoring. Look at the Tories (the actual government) cancelling green policies, some of the people moaning about Labour now said nothing back then. It’s reasons like this that I feel some people aren’t being completely honest about things.

and the loop continues ..... how many times have people destroyed or given strong opinions about the f**kING Tory party , the comments are because labour as looking like a realistic new govt ( which is good ) but people using brains and questioning the opposition policy make sense otherwise this thread would have no discussion . people dont have to state they dislike the tory party every time they question labour policies , I take that as pretty much a given from 99% of the people posting here 

[Skip997]

What about people who dislike both?

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

and the loop continues ..... how many times have people destroyed or given strong opinions about the f**kING Tory party , the comments are because labour as looking like a realistic new govt ( which is good ) but people using brains and questioning the opposition policy make sense otherwise this thread would have no discussion . people dont have to state they dislike the tory party every time they question labour policies , I take that as pretty much a given from 99% of the people posting here 

exactly this! people never criticised Labour for the initial 28 billion pledge, they are criticising them for backing down on it. Of course their policies are going to better than the Tories, it does not mean they cannot be criticised. Anyone can see this.

Unless of course they were a (and I hope I am using this term right) a bad faith actor  🤯

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

What about people who dislike both?

they question both but id suggest you aren't hiding that in any way 

[steviewevie]

40 minutes ago, Neil said:

a year on from my mum's death, we have no idea if we'll need to pay inheritance tax - that's how slowly it works.

Yeah so needs improving. 

[Ozanne]

10 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

and the loop continues ..... how many times have people destroyed or given strong opinions about the f**kING Tory party , the comments are because labour as looking like a realistic new govt ( which is good ) but people using brains and questioning the opposition policy make sense otherwise this thread would have no discussion . people dont have to state they dislike the tory party every time they question labour policies , I take that as pretty much a given from 99% of the people posting here 

I don’t see that, people have been much more critical of Labour here when they haven’t changed their green policies yet barely said anything when the Tories changed government policy on the same thing. It’s why some people come across as much more sympathetic to the Tories.

[Ozanne]

Let’s see. 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I don’t see that, people have been much more critical of Labour here when they haven’t changed their green policies yet barely said anything when the Tories changed government policy on the same thing. It’s why some people come across as much more sympathetic to the Tories.

the sh*t show of the tory party is a given though .... so people dont question it so much,  people just aren't surprised any longer what they get up to . The green policy should be agreed by all parties tbh and they shouldn't be able to change it . should just be locked in . 

[Skip997]

The biggest problem with both Tory and Labour is that they are far too concerned with keeping big business happy and show too little concern for the "man/woman on the street"

 

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

the sh*t show of the tory party is a given though .... so people dont question it so much,  people just aren't surprised any longer what they get up to . The green policy should be agreed by all parties tbh and they shouldn't be able to change it . should just be locked in . 

I’m sorry but I don’t see that as a valid excuse, it’s a double standards and lets the Tories off. Equally though there are some that do it because they would rather a Tory government than a Labour one hence why they only ever criticise Labour. 

Edited February 5 by Ozanne

[steviewevie]

49 minutes ago, Neil said:

if somone is going to suggest wealth taxes, they need to define what exactkly they mean, else its just guff!

e.g.

OLDWealthTaxCommission-Final-reportold.pdf (lse.ac.uk)

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah so needs improving. 

To assess someone's wealth whether dead or alive, you need to realise the value of their assets by getting a price for them. Essentially a forced fire sale.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I’m sorry but I don’t see that as a valid excuse, it’s a double standards and lets the Tories off. Equally though there are some that do it because they would rather a Tory government than a Labour one hence why they only ever criticise Labour. 

its reality not an excuse .... who are the some because im just not seeing it ? this thread I doubt will win the election 

[Ozanne]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

its reality not an excuse .... who are the some because im just not seeing it ? this thread I doubt will win the election 

Sorry it is an excuse and not a very good one.  

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Labour have plenty of good policies that will greatly improve people’s lives and improve the country. They won’t be able to do everything they want to do because of time and also because the Tories have wrecked the economy which a lot of people seem to be ignoring. Look at the Tories (the actual government) cancelling green policies, some of the people moaning about Labour now said nothing back then. It’s reasons like this that I feel some people aren’t being completely honest about things.

I mean, I don't know...I think people did moan when govt delayed the clean energy thing to 2035, but no one expects Tories to be in government much longer, so now attention is turning to Labour, and their key pledge on this has changed. Maybe outcome is same and this is all just political, quite possibly is, but their messaging has definitely changed, and it is understandable that people think it is being deprioritised.

Edited February 5 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

To assess someone's wealth whether dead or alive, you need to realise the value of their assets by getting a price for them. Essentially a forced fire sale.

Well when an inheritance I guess it is the value of the asset when inherited?

[lost]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

e.g.

OLDWealthTaxCommission-Final-reportold.pdf (lse.ac.uk)

That doesn't answer Neils question. He doesn't even define what wealth is.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Well when an inheritance I guess it is the value of the asset when inherited?

you can only know the value by selling it!

[lost]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Well when an inheritance I guess it is the value of the asset when inherited?

Its more recessions isn't it when assets can correct 30% - 40%. if you lose your job as well and are having to sell your house to pay the tax bill right at the bottom only for it to return to its previous value by the time your back on your feet your going to pissed.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, lost said:

That doesn't answer Neils question. He doesn't even define what wealth is.

it does - but i can't copy it, in the section 

Quote

What is a wealth tax?

 

[lost]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

it does - but i can't copy it, in the section 

 

The "most" is woolly for me. Simply because money will flow into the assets that are not taxed, Crypto, antiques, fine wine. The government can't have a team of experts on everything to constantly value it.

Edited February 5 by lost

[Neil]

41 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

increase council tax on second homes,

easy to say much harder to do hubby would put 2nd home in wife's name and avoid the tax:-  to work people would have to offer themselves up for the tax, when people try to avoid tax.