news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

There was a chance then

not really, Israel wasn't convinced they'd have peaceful co-existence, cos the Palestinians haven't shown they can do it.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

not really, Israel wasn't convinced they'd have peaceful co-existence, cos the Palestinians haven't shown they can do it.

they signed a deal, oslo accord...couldn't imagine that happening today...and maybe instead of just one siding you should read up a bit more about it...takes two sides to tango, and Rabin was a good man, as was Arafat.

(relatively good).

[steviewevie]

oh dear.

 

[Neil]

29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they signed a deal, oslo accord...couldn't imagine that happening today...and maybe instead of just one siding you should read up a bit more about it...takes two sides to tango, and Rabin was a good man, as was Arafat.

(relatively good).

For the Palestinians it was mostly about getting an older generation back to the land after their time had run out in lebanon, Jordan and Tunisia.

[SheffJeff]

42 minutes ago, Neil said:

not really, Israel wasn't convinced they'd have peaceful co-existence, cos the Palestinians haven't shown they can do it.

[Skip997]

And of course all those 5590 were "terrorists"

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Grim.

I might get some hate on here but this is what frustrates me about what Hamas did on Oct 7th, they knew the make up of the Israeli govt, they knew what the reaction would be, they knew it would likely be devastating for Gazans, the knew, maybe hoped, that it would lead to a wider war. Israeli govt are a bunch of c**ts, but so are Hamas. Evil twat fanatical c**ts.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And of course all those 5590 were "terrorists"

no, but plenty were.

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Grim.

I might get some hate on here but this is what frustrates me about what Hamas did on Oct 7th

Something strange happened on Oct 7th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And of course all those 5590 were "terrorists"

and from the same angle each one of those 251 were evil oppressors?

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Something strange happened on Oct 7th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

too many words...what are you suggesting?

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Something strange happened on Oct 7th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

western security services could never f**k it up?

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

too many words...what are you suggesting?

I've spent time in Israel, they are the most security conscious/paranoid people I've met and yet despite repeated warnings from their eyes on the border they declined or decided not to act.

[Neil]

bbc has changed its headlines for northern ireland.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

I've spent time in Israel, they are the most security conscious/paranoid people I've met and yet despite repeated warnings from their eyes on the border they declined or decided not to act.

for your take to make sense there would need to be a belief in only perfect from their eyes on the border.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

I've spent time in Israel, they are the most security conscious/paranoid people I've met and yet despite repeated warnings from their eyes on the border they declined or decided not to act.

ok, I like to keep an open mind...and you never know...but I get sick of all this conspirational shite from both sides, because their own side could never do anything wrong...it is the other that is evil. 

For now I am sticking to Hamas broke through Israeli security on a Jewish holiday, killed and raped a lot of people, took a load hostage, and Israel responded by pretty much destroying Gaza and killing 10s of thousands and there is potential of escalation all over the middle east and Iran are definitely playing a part in all this.

But, maybe it is just the zionist overlords.

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

for your take to make sense there would need to be a belief in only perfect from their eyes on the border.

Have you read the article. All of those observers go into great detail about the unusual activity they observed. It wasn't small details, it was massive changes in the behavior they had been watching for years. 

[Neil]

Just now, Skip997 said:

Have you read the article. All of those observers go into great detail about the unusual activity they observed. It wasn't small details, it was massive changes in the behavior they had been watching for years. 

Yeah read it days ago and free of your prejustices.

If you think they're perfect then you'll act on their every word if you think they're perfect then you've misunderstood the human condition.

[steviewevie]

My brother to this day thinks 911 was carried out by Mossad/CIA.

[steviewevie]

then there's Jews started WW2 or Zionists worked with Hitler or Jews controlling western governments or just plain old elders of zion... it's rife.

[mattiloy]

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Rochdale by-election in a few weeks...I think Galloway might be standing...

[Ozanne]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Rochdale by-election in a few weeks...I think Galloway might be standing...

Galloway will make no difference in that by-election. 

[mattiloy]

I often wonder about when was the sort of critical moment of mission drift for liberalism.

In terms of interventionism, so intervening at first ostensibly to bring the world along on a journey towards democracy - but then ending up backing fascist war criminals just to keep the (often democratically elected) reds out from Batista to Pinochet to Kai Shek to Netanyahu today.

But also in the domestic sphere- like when did liberals all get horny over the queen and nukes and hating trans people.

There is this odd trend down the years of a reactionary regression towards authoritarianism under the aegis of protecting people’s liberty. At some point its like… whats the difference?

Edited January 30 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I often wonder about when was the sort of critical moment of mission drift for liberalism.

In terms of interventionism, so intervening at first ostensibly to bring the world along on a journey towards democracy - but then ending up backing fascist war criminals just to keep the (often democratically elected) reds out from Batista to Pinochet to Kai Shek to Netanyahu today.

But also in the domestic sphere- like when did liberals all get horny over the queen and nukes and hating trans people.

There is this odd trend down the years of a reactionary regression towards authoritarianism under the auspices of protecting people’s liberty. At some point its like… whats the difference?

Bit high brow.

And what do you mean by liberals?