news & politics:discussion

[LJS]

32 minutes ago, Neil said:

The Scottish sentencing guiidlines have everything to do with the Scottish govt who are the snp.

Rarely, has a point been missed so consistently & thoroughly.

Scotland, as you are no doubt aware, has a separate legal system from England & Wales.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on Labour trying to position themselves as more right wing than the Tories?

 

[steviewevie]

Things could well errupt in Israel/Palestine/Lebanon region...passover/ramadam/Hamas/Hezbollah and a nutty religious far right Israeli govt...boom.

[lost]

Labour appear to have been fact checked by twitter for their "Rishi doesn't support prison sentences for noncing" tweet 😆

[pink_triangle]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

Rarely, has a point been missed so consistently & thoroughly.

Scotland, as you are no doubt aware, has a separate legal system from England & Wales.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on Labour trying to position themselves as more right wing than the Tories?

 

In my view there is nothing left wing about not imprisoning adults found guilty of sexually assaulting children. With something like this the devil is in the detail. I would be interested to see the statistics used to back up these claims.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

In my view there is nothing left wing about not imprisoning adults found guilty of sexually assaulting children. With something like this the devil is in the detail. I would be interested to see the statistics used to back up these claims.

The claim that sunak doesn't think adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should go to prison? 

[steviewevie]

Apparently the 4500 number is from 2010 onwards...but we know nothing about these specific cases, and sunak has only been leader for a few months anyway.

[steviewevie]

and there's the whole linking sunak, a South Asian man, with child abuse.

It stinks.

[pink_triangle]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

The claim that sunak doesn't think adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should go to prison? 

Sunak as PM is the figurehead of the Conservative Party and will be targeted for both the positive and negative parts of the record.

The question for me is who are these 4500 offenders, are there reasons why they didn’t go to jail, if not does Sunak support changes to the law to make sure they go to jail in the future? I don’t have the information to make a judgement at present.

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

Where was the uproar when Sunak on more than 1 occasion claimed Starmer is on the side of human traffickers?

[steviewevie]

better get used to it...race to the bottom...

 

[Ozanne]

Where was the uproar for the Tory attack ad?

[pink_triangle]

To me there is nothing wrong with a left wing party being tough on crime. Those most impacted by crime are often those with the quietest voices and we should be looking after these people. To me a key difference is those on the left have a strong belief in rehabilitation and i think that’s a good thing.

[Justiceforcedave]

Would be great if we were picking who's the best rather than who's not the worst.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

To me there is nothing wrong with a left wing party being tough on crime. Those most impacted by crime are often those with the quietest voices and we should be looking after these people. To me a key difference is those on the left have a strong belief in rehabilitation and i think that’s a good thing.

I think I agree, it’s good to be tough on crime but also have a strong rehabilitation program that help those get their lives back on track. Sadly we have neither currently in this country. 

[LJS]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

To me there is nothing wrong with a left wing party being tough on crime. Those most impacted by crime are often those with the quietest voices and we should be looking after these people. To me a key difference is those on the left have a strong belief in rehabilitation and i think that’s a good thing.

...and when you are courting the votes of racist bigots as the labour party appears to be doing, it can't so any harm to smear the prime minister who happens not to be white.

[steviewevie]

59 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

To me there is nothing wrong with a left wing party being tough on crime. Those most impacted by crime are often those with the quietest voices and we should be looking after these people. To me a key difference is those on the left have a strong belief in rehabilitation and i think that’s a good thing.

well yeah...new Labour's Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime was a super successful slogan...pleasing social conservatives and liberals at same time.

But here no one is saying that they shouldn't be tough on crime...it is that ad that is just a bit grim in what it is trying to do, same as what Johnson did with the Saville thing. It's gutter politics, and I guess we're going to see a lot more of it.

 

[pink_triangle]

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

...and when you are courting the votes of racist bigots as the labour party appears to be doing, it can't so any harm to smear the prime minister who happens not to be white.

I grew up in a nice area of north Wales, my wife grew up in the Scottish highlands, I Currently live in a nice area of Nottinghamshire. I am well aware that not everyone is so fortunate. It is a lot easier for me to talk about sending less people to prison when the consequences of that action probably won’t impact of those decisions won’t impact on me as much as those living in the most deprived areas of the country. I don’t agree with calling anyone who wants a tough response to crime a racist bigot, I think it’s reasonable to want for you and your family to feel safe.

As I have said I find it hard to make a judgement on those claims, I don’t know what data they are using to back it up. Are they categorising an 18 year old having consensus sex with their 15 year old girlfriend the same as a violent rape? I hold my hand up and admit im not an expert on sexual assault sentencing, so hope someone cleverer than me can add context. If a significant proportion of the 4500 are people who should be going to jail then I hope Sunak , Starmer or whoever tackles the issue and can make things better moving forward.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I don’t agree with calling anyone who wants a tough response to crime a racist bigot,

they are often bigots, cos there's oodles of research showing better options than imprisonment. - the big problem with prison is all of the other lives it damages - family, etc.

[Neil]

the person who introduced me to so much of what i know about crime and the criminal justice system is now a professor of criminology, at one time we used to joke that i read more of her stuff than she did.

[steviewevie]

bring back hanging.

[Ozanne]

Where was the outrage?

[steviewevie]

what she says...

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by steviewevie

[Neil]

33 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well yeah...new Labour's Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime was a super successful slogan...pleasing social conservatives and liberals at same time.

But here no one is saying that they shouldn't be tough on crime...it is that ad that is just a bit grim in what it is trying to do, same as what Johnson did with the Saville thing. It's gutter politics, and I guess we're going to see a lot more of it.

 

tory angle to attack labour is that they're weak on crime, so labour are attacking back on the same thing - that angle is all the tories have left, it used to be the economy, but the tories have broken that one themselves with the truss budget.

 

 

 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

tory angle to attack labour is that they're weak on crime, so labour are attacking back on the same thing - that angle is all the tories have left, it used to be the economy, but the tories have broken that one themselves with the truss budget.

 

 

 

yeah...so there's plenty to go on...not enough police...not enough youth clubs for bored teenagers...too much poverty driving people into crime...drugs policies that don't work...they don't have to say Sunak is a friend to paedos.