news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

Yep 10 million dead under the nationalists and 40 million dead under the communists. A bit of bad blood there. 

mostly from farming failure, a bit like in stalinist ukraine.

[lost]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

mostly from farming failure, a bit like in stalinist ukraine.

Ukraine has been trying to get the Holodomor recondised as delibrate genocide for years.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

Ukraine has been trying to get the Holodomor recondised as delibrate genocide for years.

rom what i know it was deliberate only so far as forced collectivisation.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think its called having a light hearted chat, exploring idea, but you can't help being yourself can you 😛 

Why do you always have to prove a point 😛 

i've told you the circumstances are not the same and you've kept insisting that they are

[Neil]

11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think its called having a light hearted chat, exploring ideas, but you can't help being yourself can you 😛 

Why do you always have to prove a point 😛 

why do you have no worthwhile point?

[Neil]

59 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Neil, you haven't posted anything of worth in around 5 years 🙂  Your biggest point this week was around a 50p cup of coffee 😛 

i know its not worthwhile trying to apply a situation where everything is different.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

‘Our fiscal rules’ is the key bit there for me. Besides Brown signed up to Tory fiscal plans before 97 then changed tact eventually anyway. I imagine Labour will do the same here, it’s rhetoric to win the election. 

[Neil]

44 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495

Tony Blair was warned Horizon IT system could be flawed, documents show

Its all Tonys fault!

what he was told was very vague, not strong enough to dispute a court conviction.

[steviewevie]

Reform about to take over Lib Dems.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Reform about to take over Lib Dems.

It's not quite the promised green surge s it?

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

‘Our fiscal rules’ is the key bit there for me. Besides Brown signed up to Tory fiscal plans before 97 then changed tact eventually anyway. I imagine Labour will do the same here, it’s rhetoric to win the election. 

Did you miss the bit about 1% rise in public spending in 2025 and future rises depending on growth? The fiscal rules are already announced. 

She also repeats no new taxes on wealth or income and no capital gains increases. 

She does say they can hit the 2030 energy target but by using private sector investment which sounds similar to Blairite PFI schemes. She is off to Davis begging the finaciers . They will have to promise returns for years so the energy will be more expensive. USA and EU are committing direct govt investment which will be cheaper in the long run. 

[Ryan1984]

19 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its not clear from that graph who lost vote share to give reform a boost.   I am think its made up

There were some Reform guys talking nonsense into a megaphone in Gloucester town centre today. Absolutely mad but most ignored.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Did you miss the bit about 1% rise in public spending in 2025 and future rises depending on growth? The fiscal rules are already announced. 

She also repeats no new taxes on wealth or income and no capital gains increases. 

She does say they can hit the 2030 energy target but by using private sector investment which sounds similar to Blairite PFI schemes. She is off to Davis begging the finaciers . They will have to promise returns for years so the energy will be more expensive. USA and EU are committing direct govt investment which will be cheaper in the long run. 

I did see that part and to me it seems vague enough that they can justify further borrowing to fund some of policies. To say further increases depends on ‘growth’ could mean 0.3% growth like we have now or it could mean anything. I think they are purposely being vague to give themselves wiggle room when in office/publishing the manifesto.

There are more ways to raise money without those taxes that you mention even though I would support a wealth tax. 

[cellar]

4 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

 🙂 

  If I had posted like you had I would of got banned 😛   

😛   

I've lost the tiny little bow that goes with my tiny little violin, but you get the idea 😂

[Guest]

 

[mattiloy]

51 minutes ago, Neil said:

It's not quite the promised green surge s it?

3% to 6% in one parliament.

Is 100% growth in vote share not a surge?

[Neil]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

3% to 6% in one parliament.

Is 100% growth in vote share not a surge?

You were claiming that there'd be a green surge at the next election at labours expense. No sign of it.

 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

We was broadcasting it to the world while the USA seemed to be caught in the headlights the other side of the pond when suddenly being questioned about it.  Its not the first time we have pissed off the yanks in this regard.

Yanks have a habit of being last on the scene.

[Neil]

To me a surge also implies substance from the surge, in politics it would be an increase in political success - more MPs elected. Looks like greens are on course for wipeout via their one MP retiring - And the whole party having less personality than Kier starmer.

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Neil said:

To me a surge also implies substance from the surge, in politics it would be an increase in political success - more MPs elected. Looks like greens are on course for wipeout via their one MP retiring - And the whole party having less personality than Kier starmer.

yeah, it may be double but 3% isn't really a surge. But, they may poll better in an actual election if looks like labour are on course for a big win, but it's a big ask for them to win more than one or two seats. Maybe in future Greens can steer Labour policy if they take enough votes, same as UKIP did for the tories, but until we get PR they probably will never get anywhere near power. Maybe another scorching hot summer will help them in the autumn, who knows. Maybe Corbyn will set up a party which will hurt labour and Greens in the polls.

Reform are interesting, they could hurt both Labour and Tories in red wall seats but you'd think would be a bigger problem for Tories, and if Lib Dems polling gets hit because of Davey and the post office that could help Tories and blue wall seats, but also maybe Labour. But also Reform could poll better than Greens or even Lib Dems but will end up with no seats....and ironically they will all poll better than SNP who will end up with a bunch of seats (but probably not as many as last time).

[Ryan1984]

https://x.com/drmatthewsweet/status/1746238555863609617?s=46&t=0L-HQje0RJTtiVIvA-C-dQ

[SalviaPlath]

I'd expect the Greens to lose Brighton Pavillion. Caroline Lucas had a significant personal vote and the Greens ran a completely shambolic council which will have some effect. 

The Labour candidate is one of the band Gomez. Standard centre left Labour type. I'll stay home and curl my hair on the day of the election probably. 

[Ryan1984]

18 minutes ago, SalviaPlath said:

I'd expect the Greens to lose Brighton Pavillion. Caroline Lucas had a significant personal vote and the Greens ran a completely shambolic council which will have some effect. 

The Labour candidate is one of the band Gomez. Standard centre left Labour type. I'll stay home and curl my hair on the day of the election probably. 

The Gomez guy has done a lot of good work with/for the Music Venue Trust.