U.S. Presidential Election

[steviewevie]

46 minutes ago, charlierc said:

By consensus, Biden sounded more on it during both post-debate remarks last night and this event. Which begs the question of what his preparation was to leave him so wayward for the debate itself.

 

In any case a lot of big name Democrats are still coming out to bat for him, including many named as likely alternate candidates, plus Hillary and Barack. Whether that's enough to stem the tide of left-leaning columnists demanding he drop out is another question.

 

Pretty much the only alternative is an open convention, which given how the open convention of 1968 lead to a fiasco and was among the factors that handed Nixon the White House and a substantial reform of Presidential primaries. Basically, feels like it's asking for trouble. And that's despite the fact the 1968 situation was forced on the Democrats by Lyndon B Johnson resigning and RFK being assassinated and a lack of consensus on who should be Plan C.

He's fine with an autocue

[steviewevie]

 

[LJS]

6 hours ago, charlierc said:

Campaign event in North Carolina, apparently.

 

If it's similarly meandering, it won't help.

I think "meandering " is Kind

[steviewevie]

So yes he came out fighting, and yes he might do better in another tv debate...but the damage is done, and Trump might not agree to another tv debate anyway. Republicans will now be able to add clips of Biden looking old and lost in that debate to all the other footage of Biden looking and acting old for their campaign ads which they will show endlessly.

They really have f**ked it, and now I think we're looking at a Trump presidency and all that that will bring.

Edited June 29, 2024 by steviewevie

[charlierc]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

I think "meandering " is Kind

Well that's one of many words that came up in analysis of whatever the hell Thursday was.

 

Worst Presidential debate performance of all time is another thing that popped up.

[steviewevie]

🤔

[steviewevie]

 

[charlierc]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

🤔

Well I was going to wonder what the impact on the polls would be and that's... interesting.

 

Although granted US polling has a wide variety of ones given a few had Trump ahead even before Thursday night's shitshow but an average of averages had Biden with a sub-1% lead. So... pfft. Who knows.

[pink_triangle]

The thing is you may think his debate performance was sh*t, but if your voting against Trump, your still voting against trump.

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

The thing is you may think his debate performance was sh*t, but if your voting against Trump, your still voting against trump.

That's kind of the ultimate nature. It's irritating but that's US politics for ya. And indeed there are plenty of people ok with voting for a clearly over-the-hill Biden if any other result is the return of the despot and his acolytes' Project 2025 nightmare.

[steviewevie]

Supreme court has ruled that Trump has immunity for official acts...so...err.......

[steviewevie]

 

[LJS]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

Dithery Harry.

[charlierc]

On 7/1/2024 at 3:45 PM, steviewevie said:

Supreme court has ruled that Trump has immunity for official acts...so...err.......

Bet that if a Democrat president had kicked up such a cloud of stink on the way out after an election defeat that there's no way a pro-Republican Supreme Court would rule in such a way.

[LJS]

Maybe Biden should attack Trump with a machete at the next debate & claim immunity.

 

Although, in fairness, he'd probably trip & fall on the machete.

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

Maybe Biden should attack Trump with a machete at the next debate & claim immunity.

 

Although, in fairness, he'd probably trip & fall on the machete.

Polls of the last debate said that while Biden unquestionably had a stinker, a majority felt both shouldn't be let back into the Oval Office.

 

So... I dunno, maybe that f**king mess dropped by the Supreme Court might well just add to the farce that such a thing might not be that out of place in what a mess this election looks like.

[charlierc]

Clearly something is up if the New York Times felt moved to publish a piece saying Biden told an ally he's considering withdrawing from the race. Even if the White House denied it and Biden & Kamala Harris said in a call with the DNC they're still fighting on.

 

It's a bizarre situation all round tbh. I think he should withdraw - like Cristiano Ronaldo or indeed Trump, he's too old for the saviour role he thinks he's pulling off - yet would still vote for him over Trump. For what it's worth ofc, given that as a British person I don't get a vote.

[steviewevie]

[charlierc]

Apparently Trump was videoed on a golf cart saying he expects Biden to drop out and for Kamala Harris to be his main opponent in November.

 

Rare that he's on the same page as multiple Democrat operators seem to be.

 

Biden's meant to be doing a big TV interview tomorrow. If he f**ks that up too, the calls for him to be shoved aside are only going to get louder... if that's possible given how loud they've been getting this week.

[steviewevie]

 

[charlierc]

I mean, he's defiant. I'll give him that.

 

US news site I often read described him in a TV interview last night as "too frail to defeat Trump and too delusional to drop out", so although his interview by consensus was better than his debate disaster, I wouldn't exactly call it an improvement.

[FloopFiller]

If the Dems had any hope of running an alternative candidate to Biden then they should’ve been sowing the seeds of it for the last four years, not four months away from the election. The few days post-debate is the first time I’ve thought that Trump might have a chance of winning, but… 

On 6/29/2024 at 6:16 PM, pink_triangle said:

The thing is you may think his debate performance was sh*t, but if your voting against Trump, your still voting against trump.

…ultimately, this is what it comes down to. Everybody knows what Trump is like and everybody has had eight years to decide if they’re with or against him and I doubt that single debate has budged anybody in either direction enough to decide the election results.
 

It sucks that Biden is clearly a shadow of his former self at this stage, and it’s a shame his ego wouldn’t allow himself to step aside and let somebody younger take his place, but then he did beat Trump in 2020 so I can understand why he believed he can do it again, and if it’s a feeble old man vs. a literal fascist (who also happens to be an old man) then I imagine the outcome is gonna be near identical to 2020, with Biden possibly even gaining a bigger advantage due to Trump becoming so unhinged in the last few years. 
 

As for if Biden does win, I do wonder if he’ll make it to the end of a second term. He’s always had his gaffes but his frailty and senior moments seem to be becoming the norm rather than occasional slip ups these days and has deteriorated pretty drastically over the last two years at least. 

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, FloopFiller said:

If the Dems had any hope of running an alternative candidate to Biden then they should’ve been sowing the seeds of it for the last four years, not four months away from the election. The few days post-debate is the first time I’ve thought that Trump might have a chance of winning, but… 

…ultimately, this is what it comes down to. Everybody knows what Trump is like and everybody has had eight years to decide if they’re with or against him and I doubt that single debate has budged anybody in either direction enough to decide the election results.
 

It sucks that Biden is clearly a shadow of his former self at this stage, and it’s a shame his ego wouldn’t allow himself to step aside and let somebody younger take his place, but then he did beat Trump in 2020 so I can understand why he believed he can do it again, and if it’s a feeble old man vs. a literal fascist (who also happens to be an old man) then I imagine the outcome is gonna be near identical to 2020, with Biden possibly even gaining a bigger advantage due to Trump becoming so unhinged in the last few years. 
 

As for if Biden does win, I do wonder if he’ll make it to the end of a second term. He’s always had his gaffes but his frailty and senior moments seem to be becoming the norm rather than occasional slip ups these days and has deteriorated pretty drastically over the last two years at least. 

People have forgotten or don't care how bad Trump was. There will always be an enthusiastic vote for Trump, not sure if there is enough enthusiasm to vote for Biden to stop Trump.

 

[FloopFiller]

9 hours ago, steviewevie said:

People have forgotten or don't care how bad Trump was. There will always be an enthusiastic vote for Trump, not sure if there is enough enthusiasm to vote for Biden to stop Trump.

 

Not a bad point - there does seem to be a weird case of people forgetting what a disaster Trump was, especially when it came to COVID in his final year which Biden then got lumped with. If Biden loses I think it’ll come down to a lot of left leaning voters not bothering to vote at all rather than turning to Trump, and the current Israel vs Palestine conflict is something which might end up having that result. 
 

So many current factors at play that seem to be blinding a lot of people to what a disaster a second Trump term would be in the long run and I sure hope all the people planning on sitting this one out in protest are ready to face the consequences if it happens. 2016 all over again with the left’s blasé attitude to their candidate. 

[charlierc]

14 hours ago, FloopFiller said:

If the Dems had any hope of running an alternative candidate to Biden then they should’ve been sowing the seeds of it for the last four years, not four months away from the election. The few days post-debate is the first time I’ve thought that Trump might have a chance of winning, but… 

…ultimately, this is what it comes down to. Everybody knows what Trump is like and everybody has had eight years to decide if they’re with or against him and I doubt that single debate has budged anybody in either direction enough to decide the election results.
 

It sucks that Biden is clearly a shadow of his former self at this stage, and it’s a shame his ego wouldn’t allow himself to step aside and let somebody younger take his place, but then he did beat Trump in 2020 so I can understand why he believed he can do it again, and if it’s a feeble old man vs. a literal fascist (who also happens to be an old man) then I imagine the outcome is gonna be near identical to 2020, with Biden possibly even gaining a bigger advantage due to Trump becoming so unhinged in the last few years. 
 

As for if Biden does win, I do wonder if he’ll make it to the end of a second term. He’s always had his gaffes but his frailty and senior moments seem to be becoming the norm rather than occasional slip ups these days and has deteriorated pretty drastically over the last two years at least. 

They've unquestionably given themselves a problem and I agree that changing Biden out now can only be a mess.

 

If they're going to win from here, they are going to have to nail every single talking point - nail the fact that they had a plan which did have America in better shape, nail what their plans are to develop this and actually help more Americans feel like the economy is in better shape than it is, nail talking point plans for how to reverse some of the Republican party's antics, and nail the message that putting Trump back in the White House is going to be a disaster.

 

There is still an awkwardness to Trump and co, given they've had a weekend saying the hardline ultra-conservative Project 2025 has nothing to do with the Trump campaign despite it being written by 20 former advisors to the Trump White House. But there's so much noise about Biden being infirm, very much self-inflicted, and a sense that the Democrat Party is entering this not looking united.

 

Certainly, one way or another, it's hard to be confident in the Party in making the tangible campaign that nails every single talking point as said above or indeed making it through their convention next month without some kind of loud shouting match.