General Election 2015

[Rose-Colored Boy]

I think the whole of British politics is woefully short of politicians with real leadership qualities. Probably something to do with the selection requirements now imposed by all parties which results in a barrowload of uninspiring uncontroversial mp's.

and Murdoch tabloids doorstopping candidates' grandmothers isn't going to help matters either

[russycarps]

You're losing it Russy. How does them doing exactly what they've done for years equate To using the lives of animals...? I would imagine they abstained on the original vote to ban hunting too. You really will have to learn that you can't rely on the Scots to be your conscience. Grow up & take responsibility for your own votes.

Kettle on, nice cup of tea, then maybe you'll see what a prat you're being.

Yep I am a prat for believing st nicola when she said she'd be acting for the good of the UK as a whole. Silly me.

"If the SNP emerges from this election in a position of influence we will exercise that influence responsibly and constructively, and we will always seek to exercise it in the interests of people not just in Scotland but across the whole of the UK."

So you admit she's a liar then. Glad we are in agreement over something.

[LJS]

Yep I am a prat for believing st nicola when she said she'd be acting for the good of the UK as a whole. Silly me.

"If the SNP emerges from this election in a position of influence we will exercise that influence responsibly and constructively, and we will always seek to exercise it in the interests of people not just in Scotland but across the whole of the UK."

So you admit she's a liar then. Glad we are in agreement over something.

No! She made it clear the circumstances in which they would vote on English matters...

“That’s why one of the first objectives of a strong group of SNP MPs will be to push back against the Tories’ proposals and work to ensure continued protection of the rights of all Scottish MPs to have a say on budgets, taxation and other key issues for as long as those powers remain at Westminster.

“And we will make our voices heard, when appropriate, by voting on matters which affect England but which also impact on Scotland financially. We will vote on nominally English matters at each and every opportunity when Scotland’s national and economic interests are directly affected.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/08/scottish-mps-vote-english-laws-nicola-sturgeon

[russycarps]

Your article predates my quote.

But I suspect you knew that already.

[LJS]

Your article predates my quote.

But I suspect you knew that already.

it doesn't matter. They repeatedly made it clear the circumstances under which they would vote on English matters. they had to continually justify this.

Look, Russy, I know you are really into animal rights & I understand how much you want the Tories to fail in their attempt to reintroduce hunting. As you are no doubt aware it is not such a big issue for everyone & it is completely unrealistic to expect the SNP to reverse their whole position on what they do & don't vote on for this issue. They would be crucified.

I'm genuinely sorry & would far rather this wasn't happening but to blame this on the SNP is hitting the wrong target. The Tories & the selfish bastards who vote for them are the issue. In Scotland we have ruthlessly hunted the Tories until they are nearly extinct.

[feral chile]

it doesn't matter. They repeatedly made it clear the circumstances under which they would vote on English matters. they had to continually justify this.

Look, Russy, I know you are really into animal rights & I understand how much you want the Tories to fail in their attempt to reintroduce hunting. As you are no doubt aware it is not such a big issue for everyone & it is completely unrealistic to expect the SNP to reverse their whole position on what they do & don't vote on for this issue. They would be crucified.

I'm genuinely sorry & would far rather this wasn't happening but to blame this on the SNP is hitting the wrong target. The Tories & the selfish bastards who vote for them are the issue. In Scotland we have ruthlessly hunted the Tories until they are nearly extinct.

I too abhor foxhunting. But I really hope Scotland does well for the stand they've made.

[russycarps]

it doesn't matter. They repeatedly made it clear the circumstances under which they would vote on English matters. they had to continually justify this.

Look, Russy, I know you are really into animal rights & I understand how much you want the Tories to fail in their attempt to reintroduce hunting. As you are no doubt aware it is not such a big issue for everyone & it is completely unrealistic to expect the SNP to reverse their whole position on what they do & don't vote on for this issue. They would be crucified.

I'm genuinely sorry & would far rather this wasn't happening but to blame this on the SNP is hitting the wrong target. The Tories & the selfish bastards who vote for them are the issue. In Scotland we have ruthlessly hunted the Tories until they are nearly extinct.

But nicola has already reversed the snp's position.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/599607854534909952

There is hope

[russycarps]

https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/599607854534909952

There is hope

Let's see if she values morals over politics, or will take the same sickening position as ljs: independence at any cost.

[LJS]

Yes

I shall remember that.

I think the one thing you & I & russy & the blessed Nicola agree on is we would prefer to maintain the ban on twats in red jackets taking pleasure in the death of innocent beasts.

What really pisses me off is your desperation to use this as yet another stick to beat the SNP with. I expect this of Neil. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss anything on here because too many people appear to see the world through a prism of SNP hatred.

Edited May 16, 2015 by LJS

[viberunner]

Rumours the SNP are going to abstain on fox hunting

From the SNP website:

The SNP has a long-standing position of not voting on matters that only affect England. The Hunting Act is one such matter that purely affects England and Wales, and so SNP MPs would not vote on this issue. However, SNP MPs will always be a voice for the protection of our environment and wildlife.

The Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act was passed by the Scottish Parliament in February 2002, making Scotland the first part of the UK to ban traditional fox hunting and hare coursing. There are no plans to repeal the Act in Scotland.

http://www.snp.org/node/15739

Matters of the economy, social welfare, etc., affect the entire UK including Scotland, so it makes sense to vote on them even if they affect England too.

But are matters that are English "parish business" really the mandate of Scotland? This is the heart of the West Lothian question.

Why are English MPs not allowed to vote on Scotland-only matters e.g. The Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 but Scottish MPs permitted to vote on the likes of The Hunting Act 2004 which does not affect Scotland?

English vote for Tory & UKIP was 56.1%, an absolute majority.

I wish it wasn't the case but it is.

The SNP have a mandate to reject the English right-wing consensus for Scotland, but surely England on English-only matters must figure out a way of governing itself?

[viberunner]

I think the SNP not voting on anything that doesn't directly affect Scotland is fucking disgraceful to be frank. We have the system we have and for 56 (or whatever it is) or the seats to constantly to abstain from key decesions that affect the United Kingdom is disgraceful and only goes to show what self serving bastards they are.

If they have principles they should be looking to inject those princples into the whole of the union to make the whole of the union a more fairer place to live. But no, its just another example of what a bunch of self serving bastards the SNP are, and apparently, what a bunch of self serving bastards the Scots have become as well. Utter c**ts.

Angry much? The position is to abstain on matters which affect England and Wales alone, not to abstain on matters of the entire UK.

It is a consistent and long-held position and one which, quite frankly, answers the West Lothian question.

Scotland didn't like it when it was perceived English Tories forced the Poll Tax on them. Why would England feel any better if Scotland was perceived to force their views on English-only matters?

Fox Hunting is one you clearly feel strongly on, wanting the SNP to vote against. But what if it was a different topic that you supported the government on, on an English-only matter, and the SNP voted to bring that down? You think you wouldn't be fucking furious with the fucking Scottish c**ts coming down here forcing their will on English law the fucking fucketty c**ting fuckety c**ts etc. etc. etc.?

[gary1979666]

I'm with the SNP on this one. Looks like evel will be implemented and this is in the same spirit.

[LJS]

Angry much? The position is to abstain on matters which affect England and Wales alone, not to abstain on matters of the entire UK.

It is a consistent and long-held position and one which, quite frankly, answers the West Lothian question.

Scotland didn't like it when it was perceived English Tories forced the Poll Tax on them. Why would England feel any better if Scotland was perceived to force their views on English-only matters?

Fox Hunting is one you clearly feel strongly on, wanting the SNP to vote against. But what if it was a different topic that you supported the government on, on an English-only matter, and the SNP voted to bring that down? You think you wouldn't be fucking furious with the fucking Scottish c**ts coming down here forcing their will on English law the fucking fucketty c**ting fuckety c**ts etc. etc. etc.?

Nailed it Vibe.

[LJS]

I'm with the SNP on this one. Looks like evel will be implemented and this is in the same spirit.

You getting your scarlet jacket ready?

Tally Ho!

[LJS]

Animal rights ....Fucked

Human rights... Fucked

Worker's rights.... Fucked

Extreme right.... Rampant

[pink_triangle]

I personally think English vote for English laws creates two classes of mps. Its a British parliament and I'm happy for any British mp to have their voice heard and vote on any issue that comes through the parliament.

If course if there's call from an English parliament, I'm happy for a party to put it in a manifesto and put it to the electorate.

[LJS]

When stuff I don't like happens, I constantly get told to deal with it because it's democracy.

Voters decided in Election that repealing ban on fox hunting was more important than raising the minimum wage.

Deal with it.

[russycarps]

I personally think English vote for English laws creates two classes of mps. Its a British parliament and I'm happy for any British mp to have their voice heard and vote on any issue that comes through the parliament.

If course if there's call from an English parliament, I'm happy for a party to put it in a manifesto and put it to the electorate.

Yep my thoughts exactly. No problem with the snp voting on any issue at all. It's a UK parliament

Of course this doesn't fit with the raving nationalists on here agenda so they try and ignore it

[russycarps]

I'm with the SNP on this one. Looks like evel will be implemented and this is in the same spirit.

We may disagree with the snp mob on here but the genuine hatred is reserved for you and yours alone.

I bet you can barely repress your erection over the thought that the hunt will be resumed.

I'll be calling some of my old alf friends soon enough.

[feral chile]

I personally think English vote for English laws creates two classes of mps. Its a British parliament and I'm happy for any British mp to have their voice heard and vote on any issue that comes through the parliament.

If course if there's call from an English parliament, I'm happy for a party to put it in a manifesto and put it to the electorate.

what, left and right wing you mean?

[pink_triangle]

what, left and right wing you mean?

By 2 classes, I mean that some mps will be able to vote on everything and some mps will have restrictions. It's a British parliament and every vote effects Britain, I'm therefore comfortable with the right of British mps to all have an equal say.

[feral chile]

By 2 classes, I mean that some mps will be able to vote on everything and some mps will have restrictions. It's a British parliament and every vote effects Britain, I'm therefore comfortable with the right of British mps to all have an equal say.

Don't you already have that with devolution though?

[pink_triangle]

Don't you already have that with devolution though?

As I have said I have no problems with there being an English parliament of that's what the people of England want. However we have just voted in a general election for the British parliament.

Every mp has gone through the same process to be elected and should have an equal say.

[feral chile]

As I have said I have no problems with there being an English parliament of that's what the people of England want. However we have just voted in a general election for the British parliament.

Every mp has gone through the same process to be elected and should have an equal say.

You've just voted for a British parliament that contains devolved countries. Whether you agree or not, Scotland and Wales voted for devolution, and their MP's have a greater say in how they are governed. Is it then fair for them also to have a say in how England is governed? The UK as a whole, yes, of course.