Football 2014/15

[eFestivals]

Interesting. Do you think Everton or Spurs are more lilkey based on their performance then?

I don't really think there's been enough games yet to see how this season's teams are going to go - tho for some, particularly Chelsea and City (and Arsenal too, tho less-so), there's not really much need to wait and see.

I'd say that Spurs are in much the same place, Everton are perhaps going to drop a little (tho for no particular reason; 2nd season syndrome?), and Liverpool more than Everton - tho there's some settling in to be done by them all to really see.

[eFestivals]

You've changed your tune.

Have I?

If I have, it's cos L'pool couldn't break down Villa, &/or Utd showing they've perhaps got something more than last season tho only against a dreadful QPR.

Liverpool are going to be a lesser team without Suarez. You remember him, the player who you said wouldn't add much to Liverpool's goals about this time last season.

[Gucci Piggy]

Liverpool couldn't break teams down last season who did what Villa did in sitting back to defend a lead, like when they lost to Chelsea. I don't think Saturday's game really told us that much.

[eFestivals]

Liverpool couldn't break teams down last season who did what Villa did in sitting back to defend a lead, like when they lost to Chelsea. I don't think Saturday's game really told us that much.

True.

Tho I think Rodgers made a mistake by putting out such an untried 11 - there were 4 newbies in the team, which probably wasn't the best idea when a player as important as Sturridge was missing. They improved when Sterling came on, as he linked up better with the last-season-ers.

Without Suarez, Sturridge is more important than ever. Without Sturridge, they need stability in the squad.

And without Suarez's goals, the inability to build up the defence into something stronger is going to be costly I reckon. IMO that was their best bet for covering for his loss.

Edited September 15, 2014 by eFestivals

[GodlikeYeezus]

True.

Tho I think Rodgers made a mistake by putting out such an untried 11 - there were 4 newbies in the team, which probably wasn't the best idea when a player as important as Sturridge was missing. They improved when Sterling came on, as he linked up better with the last-season-ers.

Without Suarez, Sturridge is more important than ever. Without Sturridge, they need stability in the squad.

And without Suarez's goals, the inability to build up the defence into something stronger is going to be costly I reckon. IMO that was their best bet for covering for his loss.

Just needs time to fill a void like Suarez left. Mainly due to the fact three or four players have to adapt in the team to fill it. As you said with the link up play a complete agree, just wasn't the sharp passing of last season.

[zahidf]

I'm hoping Everton win the Europa League, so it doesn't matter if Man utd get fourth...

[eFestivals]

Just needs time to fill a void like Suarez left. Mainly due to the fact three or four players have to adapt in the team to fill it. As you said with the link up play a complete agree, just wasn't the sharp passing of last season.

I've just realised it was 6 newbies, not 4 - tho three of them were defenders, so of less relevance for breaking a team down, and actually those three have looked OK-ish (no worse than last year, and perhaps better).

Last season Liverpool were at the top from the start and managed to stay there. I've got less confidence that they'll succeed in climbing their way up there after a poor-ish start.

----

Random thought ... if Spurs won the Europa and finished outside the top 4, and (say) Liverpool won the CL but finished outside the top 4, who gets to go into the CL from the PL next season?

No, I'm not expecting Liverpool to win the CL, before someone thinks I am. I'm just interested to know how the mechanics for a situation like that would work.

[dentalplan]

I would say that's total rubbish, the falcao loan was totally out of the blue in a position United didn't really need anyone else.

If you said that about Di Maria I would agree, the falcao loan transfer in the last minute total rubbish argument. If anything it's given United a negative response with selling welbeck.

Tell that to the Old Trafford support.

[dentalplan]

Random thought ... if Spurs won the Europa and finished outside the top 4, and (say) Liverpool won the CL but finished outside the top 4, who gets to go into the CL from the PL next season?

No, I'm not expecting Liverpool to win the CL, before someone thinks I am. I'm just interested to know how the mechanics for a situation like that would work.

Top three I think someone said in this thread. Only way 4th would miss out.

[GodlikeYeezus]

I've just realised it was 6 newbies, not 4 - tho three of them were defenders, so of less relevance for breaking a team down, and actually those three have looked OK-ish (no worse than last year, and perhaps better).

Last season Liverpool were at the top from the start and managed to stay there. I've got less confidence that they'll succeed in climbing their way up there after a poor-ish start.

----

Random thought ... if Spurs won the Europa and finished outside the top 4, and (say) Liverpool won the CL but finished outside the top 4, who gets to go into the CL from the PL next season?

No, I'm not expecting Liverpool to win the CL, before someone thinks I am. I'm just interested to know how the mechanics for a situation like that would work.

Top three and Liverpool i think however they might allow Spurs into the playoffs as well.

[LondonTom]

Random thought ... if Spurs won the Europa and finished outside the top 4, and (say) Liverpool won the CL but finished outside the top 4, who gets to go into the CL from the PL next season?

Whoever is in 4th place misses out (from the CL place) as I believe the Europa spot is an "extra spot".

[thetime]

True.

Tho I think Rodgers made a mistake by putting out such an untried 11 - there were 4 newbies in the team

Di Maria, rojo, blind, falcao, Herrera.

Just saying like.

[kaosmark2]

Random thought ... if Spurs won the Europa and finished outside the top 4, and (say) Liverpool won the CL but finished outside the top 4, who gets to go into the CL from the PL next season?

No, I'm not expecting Liverpool to win the CL, before someone thinks I am. I'm just interested to know how the mechanics for a situation like that would work.

Winners of CL and winners of EL are guaranteed a place. A country can get an extra spot if such things happen, and the lowest league place loses out in such a situation. Top 3 in England are all guaranteed.

[eFestivals]

Di Maria, rojo, blind, falcao, Herrera.

Just saying like.

Yep, but Utd were playing the shittest team ever. It makes a difference.

[eFestivals]

New rules mean that CL can have 5 teams from one country competing. Your scenario is the only way that 4th place would miss out on CL place.

Thanks to everyone for the answers. This one, perhaps, sums it up in the clearest way.

[kaosmark2]

As long as I'm right. Kaosmark's answer implies that only top 3 plus CL winner would qualify if CL winner finishes outside top 4 and the 5th spot is only for the unlikely event of 2 teams from same country winning Europa and CL.

I interpreted what I heard to mean that 5 would qualify in the case of just one European winner finishing outside top 4.

Kaosmark's reply does make sense though so I'm now doubting myself.

Yeah, the impression I'd got was it required both to be winners from the same country. I'm going off memory from reading a poorly worded article a few months ago though, so I could well be wrong.

[GodlikeYeezus]

I have the burning question of how is Euro 2016 going to work with 24 teams?

[Gucci Piggy]

If an English team wins the CL and finishes outside the top 4, they qualify along with the top 4.

If an English team wins the Europa League and finishes outside the top 4, they qualify along with the top 4.

In English teams win both the CL and EL, and both finish outside the top 4, they both qualify along with the top 3.

So the only way 4th miss out if English teams win both the EL and CL and finish outside the top 4.

[Gucci Piggy]

I have the burning question of how is Euro 2016 going to work with 24 teams?

I asked some people about this not long ago and no one knew. The only thing I can come up with is 6 teams in each group, with 2 going through to the next round.

They can't add groups as there'd be the wrong number of teams in the knockout stages.

[hot_ice]

I asked some people about this not long ago and no one knew. The only thing I can come up with is 6 teams in each group, with 2 going through to the next round.

They can't add groups as there'd be the wrong number of teams in the knockout stages.

Wiki...

To accommodate the expansion from a 16 team finals tournament to 24 teams, the format will be changed from that used in 2012 with the addition of two extra groups in the group stage, and an extra round in the knockout stages. The six groups (A to F) would still contain four teams each, with the top two from each group still going through to the knockout stage. In the new format however, the four best third-ranked sides would also progress, leaving 16 teams going into the new round of 16 knockout stage, ahead of the usual quarter-finals, semi-finals and final, and only 8 teams going out at the group stage.^[13]

This format generates a total of 51 games, compared with 31 games for the previous 16-team tournament, to be played over a period of 31 days. UEFA's general secretary Gianni Infantino previously described the format as "not ideal" due to the need for third-ranked teams in the group stage advancing, leading to a difficulty in preventing situations where teams might be able to know in advance what results they need to progress out of the group, lending to a lack of suspense for fans, or even the prospect of mutually beneficial collusion between teams.^[13]

[GodlikeYeezus]

I asked some people about this not long ago and no one knew. The only thing I can come up with is 6 teams in each group, with 2 going through to the next round.

They can't add groups as there'd be the wrong number of teams in the knockout stages.

Exactly, really can't see six team groups but you never know.

[GodlikeYeezus]

Wiki...

To accommodate the expansion from a 16 team finals tournament to 24 teams, the format will be changed from that used in 2012 with the addition of two extra groups in the group stage, and an extra round in the knockout stages. The six groups (A to F) would still contain four teams each, with the top two from each group still going through to the knockout stage. In the new format however, the four best third-ranked sides would also progress, leaving 16 teams going into the new round of 16 knockout stage, ahead of the usual quarter-finals, semi-finals and final, and only 8 teams going out at the group stage.^[13]

This format generates a total of 51 games, compared with 31 games for the previous 16-team tournament, to be played over a period of 31 days. UEFA's general secretary Gianni Infantino previously described the format as "not ideal" due to the need for third-ranked teams in the group stage advancing, leading to a difficulty in preventing situations where teams might be able to know in advance what results they need to progress out of the group, lending to a lack of suspense for fans, or even the prospect of mutually beneficial collusion between teams.^[13]

Wow that just sounds stupid

[hot_ice]

it is,

basically we have to wait until the final 16 before it gets exciting...

[GodlikeYeezus]

Completely devalues the tournament

[thetime]

At Italia 90, every game in England's group finished 1-1, apart from England beating Egypt (i think it was Egypt) so England won the group, Egypt finished bottom and Ireland and the Netherlands finished on the same points, with the same GD and same Goals scored. Obviously the head to head was 1-1 so second/third place was decided by drawing lots/toss of a coin (can't remember which).

For years I wondered why this childhood memory hadn't caused more of a stir and loads of my age group didn't remember it. It was only a couple of years ago that I realised it was cos the best 4 3rd place teams also went through and Ireland weren't eliminated because of it.

So it isn't always stupid. If this happened in WC now, someone would be knocked out on the toss of a coin.

It happened a few times in the 50s and 60s.