an election where your vote counts

[eFestivals]

All of them are not on the right. Some are no2eu style lefties like Bob crow and Tony Benn that want to leave to renationalise their industries. I guess that would make a voting block more difficult. You'd need socialists, national socialists and libertarians to all agree.

the nutters are on the right.

[Buff124]

You might find that wasn't just Labour but the whole of the Westminster government....

[eFestivals]

BBC Scotland News - Sunday, 29 September, 2002

Thing is, there was quite a big gap between official govt policy, and how Labour MPs choice to act as individuals. Many abstained or voted against.

There was greater support in 2003 for the war from the tory party than there was the Labour Party.

Personally, I tend to pin the blame squarely on Blair rather than Labour. It's not like party members were urging him along, even if many decided to go along with Blair's decision.

[eFestivals]

Not sure what your point is ?

Buff's is about how much more wonderful decisions made in Scotland are.

And on this occasion, he's dead right - tho of course it wasn't the same issues that were being considered.

[Buff124]

Buff's is about how much more wonderful decisions made in Scotland are.

And on this occasion, he's dead right - tho of course it wasn't the same issues that were being considered.

[eFestivals]

In Holyrood, the SNP instigated a debate on Iraq, being voted down 67 to 51. Labour and the Conservatives voted together and the Liberal Democrats voted with the SNP.

I can't argue with the conclusion they made, but what I said about Holyrood considering a different issues stands - for a start, they didn't have their elected leader telling them that as a result of secret intelligence he was privy to, it was matter of urgent national importance to counter a foreign military threat.

And then of course it's an easy issue to score point from by opposing, because no one ever looks bad by being opposed to war. So while I'm sure there was plenty of sincerity with SNP and LibDem opposition, it probably wasn't only sincerity which had them opposing.

(I'm not trying to stick up for Labour btw. I'm offering facts, and context)

Edited May 23, 2014 by eFestivals

[LJS]

but people aren't necessarily voting for them because they support UKIP policies, but for other reasons entirely.

You know, *EXACTLY* the same as happened when the SNP on their SG "landslide" with less than 25% of the possible vote.

[LJS]

Thing is, there was quite a big gap between official govt policy, and how Labour MPs choice to act as individuals. Many abstained or voted against.

There was greater support in 2003 for the war from the tory party than there was the Labour Party.

Personally, I tend to pin the blame squarely on Blair rather than Labour. It's not like party members were urging him along, even if many decided to go along with Blair's decision.

[russycarps]

Good to see ukip not doing well in london by all accounts. Essex proves itself again to be the anus of the country.

[Buff124]

And then of course it's an easy issue to score point from by opposing, because no one ever looks bad by being opposed to war.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Buff124

[5co77ie]

All of them are not on the right. Some are no2eu style lefties like Bob crow and Tony Benn that want to leave to renationalise their industries. I guess that would make a voting block more difficult. You'd need socialists, national socialists and libertarians to all agree.

[5co77ie]

and without UN weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq having found any trace of WMD, let alone a direct threat to the UK.

EDIT: not being intentionally pedantic

[eFestivals]

They were opposing military action without a 2nd UN resolution, and without UN weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq having found any trace of WMD, let alone a direct threat to the UK.

EDIT: not being intentionally pedantic

hey, I'm not trying to say it was wrong to oppose. I did.

Just about everyone in the world had access to all of the same information, apart from Bush and Blair.

Bush and Blair claimed they had super-secret-special-like-them info which made it imperative that we went to war.

A person either decides that they're lying and keeps opposing, or a person believes them. And if a person believes them it doesn't make that person bad to then go along with it (unless of the opinion that any war is always only bad). It's an honourable position to support your leader in conducting a just war.

Everything bad stems solely from those lies of Bush and Blair.

Anyone else, if honourable, is clean. It's the few pricks like Boris that should be locked up, who says he knew Blair was lying but it was honourable to support him.

[5co77ie]

Seems Ukip know their target audience http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-blames-london-election-performance-on-difficulty-appealing-to-the-educated-and-cultured-9423200.html

[Guest]

Seems Ukip know their target audience http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-blames-london-election-performance-on-difficulty-appealing-to-the-educated-and-cultured-9423200.html

[t8yman]

wow, that was priceless. Harking back to the "good old days" of the british empire. FFS.

You summed it up perfectly tonyblair, laugh or cry?

[Spindles]

In our town there were 2 UKIP councillors elected. Took 2 days for one of them to get in trouble:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/24/ukip-councillor-investigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments

[LJS]

In our town there were 2 UKIP councillors elected. Took 2 days for one of them to get in trouble:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/24/ukip-councillor-investigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments

Edited May 24, 2014 by LJS

[russycarps]

Ukip share of vote down 6%. You wouldn't tell from our disgraceful media though.

[philipsteak]

Ukip share of vote down 6%. You wouldn't tell from our disgraceful media though.

Edited May 24, 2014 by philipsteak

[viberunner]

Ukip share of vote down 6%. You wouldn't tell from our disgraceful media though.

[Spindles]

Source is BBC/Yougov, who state that in 2012 they received 23% of the vote and in 2014 17%

[Buff124]

Source is BBC/Yougov, who state that in 2012 they received 23% of the vote and in 2014 17%

[grumpyhack]

Depressing

[feral chile]

Depressing