The Dirty Independence Question

[5co77ie]

George Osborne puts the boot in:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/12/independent-scotland-euro-george-osborne

An independent Scotland might have to join euro, says George Osborne

- what did that prat from the Daily Mail call the Scottish euro last night - the Scinto (skinto) I get the feeling that may stick.

[Kowalski]

George Osborne puts the boot in:

http://www.guardian....-george-osborne

I notice there were no quotes to back up the headline.

Has it been confirmed that its definitely a UK decision as to whether an independent Scotland could adopt Sterling? Swinney doesn't seem to think so: "The currency position is crystal clear – an independent Scotland will retain sterling, and there is absolutely no provision requiring Scotland to join the euro."

[5co77ie]

Has it been confirmed that its definitely a UK decision as to whether an independent Scotland could adopt Sterling? Swinney doesn't seem to think so: "The currency position is crystal clear – an independent Scotland will retain sterling, and there is absolutely no provision requiring Scotland to join the euro."

The heading of the piece is the quote. It's the people who control any currency that decide who has the currency - so up to the Treasury/Bank Of England. As was pointed out in last night's Question Time.

Edited to add: The Treaty of Union in 1707 valued 1 pound sterling at 12 scots pounds - I guess that could be revoked.

Edited January 13, 2012 by 5co77ie

[jump]

Have they said anything about if Scotland become independent how much or any debt they'd take away from the UK with them?

[Kyelo]

They have already started its Labour/Liberal Democrats/Conservatives against Scotland stuff - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16545340

Talks to begin - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16535290, would love to be a fly on the wall in there lol

[kaosmark2]

They have already started its Labour/Liberal Democrats/Conservatives against Scotland stuff - http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-16545340

Talks to begin - http://www.bbc.co.uk...reland-16535290, would love to be a fly on the wall in there lol

That idea that anti-independence is anti-Scottish is just retarded.

[Kyelo]

That idea that anti-independence is anti-Scottish is just retarded.

True, it's a completely political ploy which worryingly could work.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

True, it's a completely political ploy which worryingly could work.

ploys like that have a way of biting you in the arse. For example if the moors murderer Ian Brady gets his way if will be allowed to die in a Scottish prison. Then a vote for Scotland will be a vote for leniency for paedos and murderers. Not saying it is but everything can be used.

[Ed209]

ploys like that have a way of biting you in the arse. For example if the moors murderer Ian Brady gets his way if will be allowed to die in a Scottish prison. Then a vote for Scotland will be a vote for leniency for paedos and murderers. Not saying it is but everything can be used.

They're already a soft touch on convicted mass murdering terrorists, so paedos seems a natural progression.

[Kyelo]

They're already a soft touch on convicted mass murdering terrorists, so paedos seems a natural progression.

The entire UK system can be said to be soft...pretty much every day some paedo has moved in across from a school after being released etc

[Rufus Gwertigan]

The entire UK system can be said to be soft...pretty much every day some paedo has moved in across from a school after being released etc

At least the SNP cant blame Westminster for crap lawmaking for Scotland. It would be interesting to see what laws would be made on Independance. For instance minimum pricing on alcohol would be far dashes to enforce out of the Union than in.

[Kyelo]

Another good article from the beeb - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16548644

[kaosmark2]

Another good article from the beeb - http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-16548644

Not really:

"But an independent Scotland could expect to have more than 80% of the UK's oil and gas revenue, subject to negotiation with the Treasury."

And the rest of the article follows that assumption. I don't believe they've got any chance of getting that much.

[Kyelo]

Not really:

"But an independent Scotland could expect to have more than 80% of the UK's oil and gas revenue, subject to negotiation with the Treasury."

And the rest of the article follows that assumption. I don't believe they've got any chance of getting that much.

I've not seen anything from anywhere that states that Scotland isn't entitled and won't get the oil, there is a reason the Tories were fearful in the '70s and '80s. Every part of the media from all directions goes with that assumption. I reckon if Scotland were to get independence the UK government would need a seriously brass neck to say no, however I do think the debt thing will have a far bigger argument with it. I can see the likes of "You get your oil, your getting a bigger proportion of the debt." Scotland would then be on the back foot with an offer like that.

[kaosmark2]

It did kind of state its assumption though...

Also stated 'Could expect' and went with that for the rest of the article.

[kaosmark2]

I've not seen anything from anywhere that states that Scotland isn't entitled and won't get the oil, there is a reason the Tories were fearful in the '70s and '80s. Every part of the media from all directions goes with that assumption. I reckon if Scotland were to get independence the UK government would need a seriously brass neck to say no, however I do think the debt thing will have a far bigger argument with it. I can see the likes of "You get your oil, your getting a bigger proportion of the debt." Scotland would then be on the back foot with an offer like that.

I'm sure there was some map showing how the international waters boundaries actually worked for Scotland/rest of UK and it showed a lot smaller amount of the oil legitimately being Scotland's. I'd thought it had been posted in this thread but seemingly not.

[Kyelo]

I'm sure there was some map showing how the international waters boundaries actually worked for Scotland/rest of UK and it showed a lot smaller amount of the oil legitimately being Scotland's. I'd thought it had been posted in this thread but seemingly not.

Can't be possible, geographically the biggest oil fields are off the coast of Aberdeen and Orkney.

The way I see it though, with the oil money Scotland has a 0.1% surplus and the UK doesn't have to pay the block payment so they don't lose out either.

[kaosmark2]

Can't be possible, geographically the biggest oil fields are off the coast of Aberdeen and Orkney.

The way I see it though, with the oil money Scotland has a 0.1% surplus and the UK doesn't have to pay the block payment so they don't lose out either.

International legal lines aren't done by latitude and longitude.

[Kyelo]

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/sea/about.html

[Kyelo]

Like I said though, I reckon the UK could say "OK have your oil but along with that your getting a far larger chunk of the debt", that way the UK and Scotland benefits!

Edited January 16, 2012 by BenchBuddah

[kaosmark2]

Like I said though, I reckon the UK could say "OK have your oil but along with that your getting a far larger chunk of the debt", that way the UK and Scotland benefits!

Don't both just get screwed slightly less by that?

[Kyelo]

Don't both just get screwed slightly less by that?

Pretty much but it would leave Scotland thinking "At least we have our oil." and the UK "At least we have less debt." Petty old world lol

[Kowalski]

I'm sure there was some map showing how the international waters boundaries actually worked for Scotland/rest of UK and it showed a lot smaller amount of the oil legitimately being Scotland's. I'd thought it had been posted in this thread but seemingly not.

Bear in mind that the 80% figure mentioned in this thread won't be 80% of the oil fields in the UKCS. The are more lucrative oil fields off the coast of Scotland, particularly West of Shetland. The rest of the UK would get a fair number of oil fields in the Southern North Sea, but there's more money being made the further north you go (which is why BP are selling off many of their Southern assets).

[abdoujaparov]

Shale Gas is where it's at

shale gas is environmentally disastrous. We should be using carbon neutral fuel energy sources, not expanding gas use (and most shale gas will be burned in power stations). Shale gas extraction runs very real risks of ground and surface water contamination and possibly of acquifer contamination. And shale gas extraction itself requires massive amounts of water. All in all, I'm not sure it's where it's at at all.

[Kyelo]

shale gas is environmentally disastrous. We should be using carbon neutral fuel energy sources, not expanding gas use (and most shale gas will be burned in power stations). Shale gas extraction runs very real risks of ground and surface water contamination and possibly of acquifer contamination. And shale gas extraction itself requires massive amounts of water. All in all, I'm not sure it's where it's at at all.

That's actually another thing Scotland in the future can look forward to, massive tidal and wind energy due to our bollox weather lol