Interesting video regarding private security

[gravejr]

Just came across this video from the the Secret Garden Party. Thought it might be of interest to some users on here.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

It's discussed in the security thread down the page

[markeee]

It's discussed in the security thread down the page

[markeee]

The police should be arresting these lot, scumbags - typical using force and nothing happens

'dont piss him off, they aren't law trained'

give me a break, so if i commit a crime or do as I please..well I'm not law trained so i've done nothing wrong

and anyway I thought the point of SIA licensing was so they know what to do?

I don't get why the police dont take action against them or do something there and then as they were clearly around and I would assume stayed around whilst all this went on? SIA = bunch of ex con chavs/school dropouts not fit to run a tea stall..with a FEW decent ones in amongst the wan****

what a joke the secret garden party management wouldn't meet in a public place..and the police 'we are aware and investigating it' - means basically nothing will happen, they'll send a letter in a few months saying they exhausted all enquiries bla bla

Edited August 5, 2011 by markeee

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I've been to quite a few times to Glastonbury and a couple of times to Bestival and never seen or had any hassle off security. Now looking at events for next year as I want to do 2 or 3 over the summer. On the strength of what I have seen, the Secret Garden Party is one place I'll rule out straight away.

[markeee]

I've been to quite a few times to Glastonbury and a couple of times to Bestival and never seen or had any hassle off security. Now looking at events for next year as I want to do 2 or 3 over the summer. On the strength of what I have seen, the Secret Garden Party is one place I'll rule out straight away.

[LondonTom]

To be fair as bad the security were, I'd probs tell them pricks with camaras to feck off to.(you can bet your bollocks there was more to it than being shown, think its very rare to get a whole bunch of security being pricks considering its there job gone out the window if they do happen to get caught.)

also why exactly do they not want to meet the SGP management in their offices? Again its doubtful they are going be employing gestapo tactics on them really.

Edited August 6, 2011 by LondonTom

[deardo]

That film has just confirmed my thoughts on festival security. I.E. Easy targets are targeted. Myself and all my friends have never had a word said to us in all the years we have been attending festivals, by any security. Maybe it's because we are all 30-40 year old ex forces and all play rugby and to be honest, if they treated us like they treated the people in the film, they would find they would be a few people short to be able to bully us.Which brings me back to my original point of, they pick easy targets. They are nothing but bully's and the rozzer's need to get a grip of this before something really serious happens. Or, said security pick on the wrong group of people. Grrrrrr.

[markeee]

That film has just confirmed my thoughts on festival security. I.E. Easy targets are targeted. Myself and all my friends have never had a word said to us in all the years we have been attending festivals, by any security. Maybe it's because we are all 30-40 year old ex forces and all play rugby and to be honest, if they treated us like they treated the people in the film, they would find they would be a few people short to be able to bully us.Which brings me back to my original point of, they pick easy targets. They are nothing but bully's and the rozzer's need to get a grip of this before something really serious happens. Or, said security pick on the wrong group of people. Grrrrrr.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

That film has just confirmed my thoughts on festival security. I.E. Easy targets are targeted. Myself and all my friends have never had a word said to us in all the years we have been attending festivals, by any security. Maybe it's because we are all 30-40 year old ex forces and all play rugby and to be honest, if they treated us like they treated the people in the film, they would find they would be a few people short to be able to bully us.Which brings me back to my original point of, they pick easy targets. They are nothing but bully's and the rozzer's need to get a grip of this before something really serious happens. Or, said security pick on the wrong group of people. Grrrrrr.

[Dan R]

The people taking the video did seem to be pricks a bit, but in the end they're paying customers and the staff are meant to be professionals. In a restaurant, if the customers are pricks then it'd be an outrage for the waiter to treat them like that, and in essence, the security don't have much more authority than that. Bit of a poor analogy but still.

It was mentioned in the other security thread that if the title was changed from 'security' to 'steward' then it could make a big difference in the attitude.

[markeee]

The people taking the video did seem to be pricks a bit, but in the end they're paying customers and the staff are meant to be professionals. In a restaurant, if the customers are pricks then it'd be an outrage for the waiter to treat them like that, and in essence, the security don't have much more authority than that. Bit of a poor analogy but still.

It was mentioned in the other security thread that if the title was changed from 'security' to 'steward' then it could make a big difference in the attitude.

[glasto-worker]

I was at Hop Farm working in the Campsite Bar Sunday night and while all the bar customers were in a good mood { this was just after Prince's performance } there was a few jokers who I believed were drunk so I refused to serve them - for some reason which I cant explain two of them turned on their friend and they started kicking into him and everyone in the queue scattered

I have never seen such a severe attack at a festival - our bar Security called up the fast response unit and they were there within minuets .

So lets say you happened to be walking to your tent but did not see the initial attack all you would have seen was two guys being bundled into jeeps by Security their victim had been rushed away by paramedics.

Even although I was only feet away I was distracted by serving someone else so I did not hear what each of them said to each other to spark the attack all I know is if they were not stopped they would have killed their friend.

So I have to wonder what is missing from the video above.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I was at Hop Farm working in the Campsite Bar Sunday night and while all the bar customers were in a good mood { this was just after Prince's performance } there was a few jokers who I believed were drunk so I refused to serve them - for some reason which I cant explain two of them turned on their friend and they started kicking into him and everyone in the queue scattered

I have never seen such a severe attack at a festival - our bar Security called up the fast response unit and they were there within minuets .

So lets say you happened to be walking to your tent but did not see the initial attack all you would have seen was two guys being bundled into jeeps by Security their victim had been rushed away by paramedics.

Even although I was only feet away I was distracted by serving someone else so I did not hear what each of them said to each other to spark the attack all I know is if they were not stopped they would have killed their friend.

So I have to wonder what is missing from the video above.

[gizmoman]

The video has clearly been made by supporters of the 'victim' and so has to be judged bearing that in mind, If Rob is really in his 60's he looks pretty good for his age, when he is surrounded by security and his mates shout to him he responds then grimaces and appears to kick out, if that IS the case it's no wonder he was again wrestled to the floor. Why he came to the attention of security in the first place is never explained, it seems pretty unlikely that a group of security people would randomly attack someone for no reason whatsoever. Just to be clear I am not supporting the tactics used, but there is clearly a story here we haven't been told (or shown) for some reason. I doubt if security at any festival is of a standard that most of us would regard as 'professional', there have certainly been some pretty horrific tales from Glasto over the years. I think it's futile arguing with them but that's not easy to do when you feel hard done by for some reason or disagree with their decision. I'd be very surprised if the police took any action in this case, they will doubtless be given a very different view of the events from the security people involved.

[glasto-worker]

Surely you mean what might be missing from the video above. Failure to put the might in could be seen as some sort of unfounded allegiance to security based on a single experience at Hop Farm.

[AnnaGrant]

The video has clearly been made by supporters of the 'victim' and so has to be judged bearing that in mind, If Rob is really in his 60's he looks pretty good for his age, when he is surrounded by security and his mates shout to him he responds then grimaces and appears to kick out, if that IS the case it's no wonder he was again wrestled to the floor. Why he came to the attention of security in the first place is never explained, it seems pretty unlikely that a group of security people would randomly attack someone for no reason whatsoever. Just to be clear I am not supporting the tactics used, but there is clearly a story here we haven't been told (or shown) for some reason. I doubt if security at any festival is of a standard that most of us would regard as 'professional', there have certainly been some pretty horrific tales from Glasto over the years. I think it's futile arguing with them but that's not easy to do when you feel hard done by for some reason or disagree with their decision. I'd be very surprised if the police took any action in this case, they will doubtless be given a very different view of the events from the security people involved.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

I was at Hop Farm working in the Campsite Bar Sunday night and while all the bar customers were in a good mood { this was just after Prince's performance } there was a few jokers who I believed were drunk so I refused to serve them - for some reason which I cant explain two of them turned on their friend and they started kicking into him and everyone in the queue scattered

I have never seen such a severe attack at a festival - our bar Security called up the fast response unit and they were there within minuets .

So lets say you happened to be walking to your tent but did not see the initial attack all you would have seen was two guys being bundled into jeeps by Security their victim had been rushed away by paramedics.

Even although I was only feet away I was distracted by serving someone else so I did not hear what each of them said to each other to spark the attack all I know is if they were not stopped they would have killed their friend.

So I have to wonder what is missing from the video above.

[glasto-worker]

I think if you see someone being bundled off in an ambulance, and two blokes being taken away, most people can understand what went on.

This is different.

Security at some festivals is bad, and although there may be something missing, things like this need to be taken seriously and looked into.

[eFestivals]

The Claim in the original video is security stole items from this guy who was standing there doing nothing but for all we know he was trying to bring in something that was against the T&C - we just dont know.

I've had a convo this morning with a festival organiser about something similar which happened at his festival.

If someone is trying to bring in something they shouldn't, then the response is NOT to take - steal - their items from them. Similarly, if someone won't agree to be searched by security at the entry gate, security have no right to search them.

All that security are entitled to do in these circumstances is make an offer of exchange:- if the person wishes to enter the festival they have to hand over their 'contraband', or be subjected to that search. That is the start and end of the security team's powers at the entry gate.

Security to not have the right to take people's belongings. Security do not have the right to search someone against their will. Security only have the right to do these things with the person's consent*.

(* there's exceptions to this in reasonable circumstances, but they do not apply at the entry gate, they only apply within the event itself).

The problem is that some security personnel see themselves as policemen with the powers to do what they like when they like on their own recognizance - and this is a problem for just about every festival, because no festival can know the attitudes of the security personnel they might get.

[Gnomicide]

I would have liked to have been told how this incident started, which is glaringly missing from the account.

[gizmoman]

I've had a convo this morning with a festival organiser about something similar which happened at his festival.

If someone is trying to bring in something they shouldn't, then the response is NOT to take - steal - their items from them. Similarly, if someone won't agree to be searched by security at the entry gate, security have no right to search them.

All that security are entitled to do in these circumstances is make an offer of exchange:- if the person wishes to enter the festival they have to hand over their 'contraband', or be subjected to that search. That is the start and end of the security team's powers at the entry gate.

Security to not have the right to take people's belongings. Security do not have the right to search someone against their will. Security only have the right to do these things with the person's consent*.

(* there's exceptions to this in reasonable circumstances, but they do not apply at the entry gate, they only apply within the event itself).

The problem is that some security personnel see themselves as policemen with the powers to do what they like when they like on their own recognizance - and this is a problem for just about every festival, because no festival can know the attitudes of the security personnel they might get.

[eFestivals]

The terms and conditions of this festival (SGP) include the line 'All guests will be searched on entry to the event', i'm sure they could argue you have accepted the t and c's by buying the ticket and have therefore given your permission.

I'd be hugely surprised if that stood up in law.

It's a concentual thing which has to be agreed to as a condition of entry, it's not given as legal right to security as a condition of ticket purchase. That means in my eyes that a person is able to withdraw that consent at any time until they are intending to enter - and their intention to enter can be changed at any point until they've actually entered.

So even half way thru being searched a person could say "please stop searching me now, I've changed my mind, I'm no longer going to enter", and security should stop searching that person. After all, security are there for the security of the event, not to search people just because they feel like it.

The one factor I've not mentioned which might give the authority in law to search before entry without that person's consent would be if the licenced area of a festival included all areas used by a festival (eg: if it included, say, the car parks). But Glastonbury's licence certainly doesn't, and while they do search people & vehicles that are entering the car parks, those searches are specifically for glass - something understandably not wanted on the site by the landowner, and the searches are still done with consent.

My take on things is that the most security could do to a person refusing to be searched is to escort them off that person's land. I'm not even sure that they'd have the right in law to remove them against their will (they certainly wouldn't in normal circumstances, when there wasn't an event on the land) - it's the law that applies, not who has got the most muscle.

No consent equals no entry, it doesn't mean "we're going to search you anyway, just cos we're bigger than you".

It is possible this guy .... <snip>

Absolutely - I'm not arguing against the possibility that matey might have done something which caused those actions of security to come back on him.

Edited September 13, 2011 by eFestivals

[gizmoman]

I think you're right re: the legal position but in reality the organisers will enforce their policy through relatively untrained security and they will use licensing arguments if there is a dispute. The glasto t&c's include 'You may be searched at the entrance. Any items which the organisers consider may be used in an illegal or offensive manner shall be confiscated.', so if they found you with fireworks (for example) they would take them off you, (stealing your property you might say). Even if you decided you no longer wished to enter I am very doubtful you would be given them back. I'm sure it's a legal minefield, maybe there's a market for some enterprising lawyer to start claiming compo for disgruntled festival goers

[eFestivals]

I think you're right re: the legal position but in reality the organisers will enforce their policy through relatively untrained security and they will use licensing arguments if there is a dispute. The glasto t&c's include 'You may be searched at the entrance. Any items which the organisers consider may be used in an illegal or offensive manner shall be confiscated.', so if they found you with fireworks (for example) they would take them off you, (stealing your property you might say). Even if you decided you no longer wished to enter I am very doubtful you would be given them back. I'm sure it's a legal minefield, maybe there's a market for some enterprising lawyer to start claiming compo for disgruntled festival goers

You might well be right with the fireworks example.

Then again, I can't ever think of a case I've seen of where someone has been found with alcohol that they're trying to smuggle in against the rules and they've not been given the opportunity of keeping the booze but not enter. Fireworks shouldn't really be anything different to that, even tho they're something with an inherent danger due to their nature.

The "relatively untrained" thing shouldn't be the case nowadays as security have to be SIA badged ... but then again, we all know that they're sometimes still brainless monkeys that no amount of training could get thru to. And the reasonably recent SIA thing hasn't brought about the improvement in quality that it was claimed it would do either.