Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

Someone like brendan rogers would be a good shout, butperhaps needs another season at swansea. Theres plennty of good young managers with fresh ideas out there. Does my head in when its the same old managers gettign sacked and then get another prem job like mcleish, mccarthy, hughes etc etc.

I agree with the last bit.

But I disagree with the "needs another season" idea that gets applied to the likes of Rogers and the Norwich manager (name slips my mind).

I reckon a manager being successful at any club is a bit hit and miss anyway - it's often about whether they're a fit with the team as it is their 'skills'. You only have to look at 'rated' managers who fail but then go onto success elsewhere to see that's the case.

Any Prem club looking for a new manager could do worse than Nigel Adkins for example, tho I'd hate Soton to lose him. He of course doesn't have top-flight experience yet, but I can't see any reason why he should only get his first experience with a club he's taken up rather than with another club. His record to date is exceedingly good, and if he's going to be good at Soton in the Prem then there's no reason why that shouldn't happen at another club either.

[pink_triangle]

There isn't a single good thing about Chelsea Football Club that I can see. There's plenty to like about City.

[pink_triangle]

Richards not going. Which is a surprise considering Walker is out. So that means we're just taking one out and out right back, surprising as it's probably the role we're strongest in!

[The Nal]

I think its the right thing to go with Terry over Ferdinand...

[eFestivals]

Carroll getting the nod ahead of Crouch... I think thats a shite decision...

It's certainly a risky decision. Whether it's a shit one we'll get to see in a few weeks.

Carroll has been shit over the season, but he has started to show something more of what led LFC to spunk £35M on him lately. If that continues into the Euros it could work out well.

Meanwhile Crouch has been on the slide for a few years, and while his scoring record for England is great it's mostly been achieved against the far weaker teams.

Along with that, Crouch tends to give away a LOT of freekicks from scoring positions when playing for England - and that in itself can get to prove costly. Whether Carroll does the same thing we've yet to find out.

If the choice was mine I'd certainly be taking Crouch and not Carroll, but I can see why Woy might give Carroll a go (especially as the choice for strikers is small anyway). We're not going to win the tournament with Crouch playing, but we might - just might - do better if Carroll turns it on.

[eFestivals]

I think its the right thing to go with Terry over Ferdinand...

does anyone know for sure that Terry is actually in?

It looks like he might be, but mostly that seems to be based on it being a choice of Rio or Terry, and with Rio defo not going there's been a general presumption that Terry is.

There's an interesting piece in The Guardian or Telegraph today, which says there's big issues between some of the players and Terry even if Rio is left out - and it might be the case that Woy decides that it would be better to not have that dislike in the squad.

Then again, it seems to be the case that Richards isn't going despite Neville supposedly having told Woy to take him, so I can't really see Terry being left out. There's not a huge number of other options.

[pink_triangle]

_{In general these discussions about squad selection end up a little irrelevant. Apart from Spain (possibly germany and holland) there wont be any nations leaving quality players behind. The fact that theres even a discussion suggests you are just filling the last few places in the squad when most people will pick the same bulk of players. Terry V Ferdinand, Carroll v Crouch, Ruddy v another keeper, to be honest I dont see any of these decisions having a great impact either positive or negative.}

[thetime]

I don't like Terry the person but he is a quality footballer...

[thetime]

Looks like yaya toure wants a move away from city, or after a pay rise! Well he must need one after all.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/7759664/Agent-Toure-open-to-offers

[strummer77]

Carroll getting the nod ahead of Crouch... I think thats a shite decision...

Edited May 16, 2012 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

Looks like yaya toure wants a move away from city, or after a pay rise! Well he must need one after all.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/7759664/Agent-Toure-open-to-offers

that reads to me more like agent talk than player talk. Agents make money by moving a player, so if they're able to make a move happen they get money they wouldn't otherwise get.

And with Yaya, due to his age this is really the last chance that agent has to try to cash in big. So it looks like he's trying to.

[Steve P]

What does Mikah Richards have to do to get picked for England? Just bizarre. I've never rated Johnson that highly, and given the season that Richards has had I just don't get it.

Carroll over Crouch I can see if their looking to the future, but i'm not sure. Effectively he's been selected having played 2 consectutive good games. If that's al it takes now to get picked for England then we really are up turd creek.

I'd rather see Joey Barton playing for England than John Terry. Don't care how good a player he is, as a person he doesn't deserve the honour of another england cap.

[thetime]

Don't care how good a player he is, as a person he doesn't deserve the honour of another england cap.

[strummer77]

What does Mikah Richards have to do to get picked for England? Just bizarre. I've never rated Johnson that highly, and given the season that Richards has had I just don't get it.

[eFestivals]

Carroll over Crouch I can see if their looking to the future, but i'm not sure. Effectively he's been selected having played 2 consectutive good games. If that's al it takes now to get picked for England then we really are up turd creek.

I think that's a little unfair. I'm not trying to suggest that Carroll has anything but a shit season, but...

He was being picked for England before, when he was playing at the sort of level which got him the transfer to Liverpool. He's shown in recent weeks that he might be getting back to that sort of level.

Whether he really is remains to be seen, but all players come in and out of form. If he's getting back to his previous sort of form then he's in around the right sort of ball park that would get him picked.

Even at his best he's well short of what I'd personally want from an England striker, but there's not many options for strikers, not many at all. Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Crouch, Holt, and Carroll - that's about it.

I'd defo take Crouch before Carroll, but I can see the sort of logic which puts him into the consideration.

In fact I'd take Holt before Carroll too, but I can understand why Woy doesn't want to risk being crucified by doing that. He can present a justification for Carroll that many would understand even if they disagree with the conclusion, while people in general are far more against the idea of taking Holt.

[strummer77]

In fact I'd take Holt before Carroll too, but I can understand why Woy doesn't want to risk being crucified by doing that. He can present a justification for Carroll that many would understand even if they disagree with the conclusion, while people in general are far more against the idea of taking Holt.

[the_hedge]

I just don't get Downing as a player. Every time I watch him he contributes nothing to a game. Lad at work said he was really good at Villa so it must just be that every time I watch him he's awful.

He also looks like the type of player who's scared of tackles and doesn't like playing in the cold, you can just see some games he's not up for it, just goes misssing.

[Steve P]

Richards hasn't been picked for his club recently. I think he's a tank so stands out a bit, but I don't think he's as consistent as it appears. He looks good in places because of his build but definitely lacks some mobility because of it... I've heard he's a bit positionally susceptible too, though never studied him closely enough to notice as much.

I certainly wouldn't swap Johnson for Micah at Liverpool. I think Johnson's got a bit of an unfair reputation for being a complete liability because of the odd dodgy performance in poor England sides, whereas Richards seems to have this myth perpetuated by England fans that he's consistently very solid... when he's not getting in his club side.

Saying all that, he'd still have been in my squad with Walker out.

[Kyelo]

Saying that, I know Ireland have a lot of Gaelic football and Hurling stadiums that are big enough, but are they up to UEFA/FIFA standards for international football? Genuine question ...

Edited May 16, 2012 by Kyelo

[eFestivals]

This form though has been shown for a 20 minute cameo and a game against an understrength and uninterested CHelsea side. Not for a moment saying he wasn't excellent in both but to me it's really grasping at straws if we say he's in form on the basis of that.

Oh, I'm not trying to suggest that he's definitely in form - but there's the suggestion that he might be.

In the absence of other better options, I can see why Woy might be prepared to give it a go. I can't see Carroll starting games (at the start, at least) but I can see him as an option, something different to try, if things aren't going well.

And that's where he creeps above Holt (providing Carroll is really in form). I could see Holt doing better than many people credit, but he doesn't really bring anything different, he'd only be a different striker to try without bringing a different style of play along with that.

[kaosmark2]

Even at his best he's well short of what I'd personally want from an England striker, but there's not many options for strikers, not many at all. Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Crouch, Holt, and Carroll - that's about it.

I'd defo take Crouch before Carroll, but I can see the sort of logic which puts him into the consideration.

In fact I'd take Holt before Carroll too, but I can understand why Woy doesn't want to risk being crucified by doing that. He can present a justification for Carroll that many would understand even if they disagree with the conclusion, while people in general are far more against the idea of taking Holt.

[strummer77]

He also looks like the type of player who's scared of tackles and doesn't like playing in the cold, you can just see some games he's not up for it, just goes misssing.

[thetime]

Oh, I'm not trying to suggest that he's definitely in form - but there's the suggestion that he might be.

In the absence of other better options, I can see why Woy might be prepared to give it a go. I can't see Carroll starting games (at the start, at least) but I can see him as an option, something different to try, if things aren't going well.

And that's where he creeps above Holt (providing Carroll is really in form). I could see Holt doing better than many people credit, but he doesn't really bring anything different, he'd only be a different striker to try without bringing a different style of play along with that.

[eFestivals]

Defoe as well, if you consider he's got 17 goals in all competitions from the bench, and is a different type of player.

I don't see Defoe as a different type of player. He's a Rooney replacement, but well short of having the same impact IMO. I've found him unconvincing for all of his career - and aside from the bit of 'Arry-love, it appears that most managers have too.

I reckon you've got to take Rooney + 4, considering he's got at least 2 games worth of suspensions, but noone else has really shone.

yup, agree with that wholeheartedly.

I reckon it should be Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Holt and Defoe, but I'd take Carroll over Crouch. Crouch CAN'T play as a target man, he ducks away from fast high balls when all he needs to do is stand there. He's got a really good record against poor teams, and a poor record against good teams. Holt's goals are scrappy, lucky, but he scores them consistently and reliably at every level he's been tested at so far. The 2nd highest scoring English striker in the Prem (a lot of Defoe's goals came in Europa/cups) should be taken, regardless of whether the media will accept him. Carroll has got an extra level over Holt, when the system suits him and he's on form he's unplayable, but when things aren't going right he'll look slow and sluggish. If 2 of Walcott/Downing/Johnson go, I'd be really worried about taking Carroll or Holt considering the quality of aerial balls into the box they'll deliver.

A agree with just about all of that.

Just one comment about Walcott: he's not really a high ball crosser. His best crosses are at ground level.

I'd take Carroll before Defoe tho. Defoe at best is (in international terms) mediocre, so we're not going to win anything with him ... but as you say, Carroll is unplayable at his best, and if we were to get those sorts of monster performances from him (unlikely, I know) then we stand a chance of coming home with the trophy.

We're only going to win with exceptional performances, so if England are going to be there for more than making up the numbers, you need to take the players who might be exceptional.

The only reason to take 'safe' players is if the manager is more concerned with keeping his job than having a go at winning. Postman Pat got to show he just wanted to collect his astronomical wages when he left Walcott behind two years ago.

[kaosmark2]

You need good control of the ball at international level though and carrol does not have that. Crouch has good control but perhaps he doesnt use his height to his advantage.

Do england need a big striker though, england have been launching long balls for years with no success.