Football 2011-2012

[Benj]

or alternatively, a great opportunity for people to mis-represent the facts as something they're not.

Cos according to that article, not only was Downing arrested for assault but the woman involved was arrested for assault too.

So that makes the possible scenarios hugely different from the one it's being presented as by those looking for any reason to have a pop at LFC from any angle.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? It's whipping time for LFC, so they desderve everything they get, while the club thjat has a player up on three separate sexual assault charges continues to play him without a whisper being heard.

[The Nal]

while there was nothing about Scoles' play to much criticise, there was - I think - a huge factor that might have led to such impressive stats.

And that was that City didn't seem to give a fuck that he was on the pitch. They let him have the ball and they let him have all the space he wanted. Instead they put their efforts into ensuring that the other players were marked.

Edited January 9, 2012 by The Nal

[Benj]

while there was nothing about Scoles' play to much criticise, there was - I think - a huge factor that might have led to such impressive stats.

[eFestivals]

Because they know its very difficult to get the ball from him.

Ten men helped sure but its more due to the fact hes rarely tackled and doesn't play the game in the English way. His close control and short passing is incredible, best I've ever seen. Hes more like Xavi that way. Or to put it more accurately, Xavi is more like him. He pulls strings and builds play slowly. They're a different team with him. Was reminded yesterday of how good he is. Fantastic (re)signing.

all of that might be true.

But none of it changes the fact that City gave him all the time and space he could want when he had the ball - which would have led to the stats you quoted.

It's pretty easy to clock up stats like that when no one is trying to take the ball off you and a huge proportion of the passes you make are sideways or backwards as they were, and with the ball mostly coming back to you because the other players were being marked but Scoles was having all the time and space he could have wanted.

None of that is a pop at Scoles. It's simply the facts of what happened in yesterday's game.

[eFestivals]

I wonder if mr efestivals has ever said anything positive about man utd.

I wonder if if mr thetime has ever tried kicking his brain into gear to notice that what I said was the facts.

It's exceedingly rare for a player - any player - to get given the space that Scoles was being given by City yesterday.

[Benj]

None of that is a pop at Scoles. It's simply the facts of what happened in yesterday's game.

[The Nal]

Scholes made about 97 4 yard passes, it almost looked like he was trying to get brilliant passing stats, I think him and Rooney tapped it between each other about 5 times at one point, when there was no need whatsoever

[Benj]

Agree with that yeah but it gets the players going, moving, passing and he'll do that until theres space to do something else. You can create space by that sort of play. Also, Utd were leading and wanted to hang onto the ball. Barca do it extremely well.

[eFestivals]

You can create space by that sort of play.

you can also be given it. And Scoles was given it.

Also, Utd were leading and wanted to hang onto the ball.

yep, they were and they were. And City seemed quite happy for them to do that when Scoles had the ball, for whatever reasons.

True yeah. But over 90 minutes, with him on the ball that much, things will happen. Its been like that for 17 years with him! Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, *sees space*, killer pass, goal.

sees small space so passes space disappears so ball comes back to Scoles. That happened time and time again.

Whatever he might haved done in his career had little bearing on things yesterday. City were just about pretending that Scoles wasn't on the pitch.

[kaosmark2]

Stats in football mean very little... Never have, never will....

[The Nal]

Whatever he might haved done in his career had little bearing on things yesterday. City were just about pretending that Scoles wasn't on the pitch.

[thetime]

Of course not... but they can tell as many lies as truths... and as many truths as lies...

The stats don't tell you Scholes cost united a goal yesterday...

Edited January 9, 2012 by thetime

[eFestivals]

Do you think if Gibson was given that much ball they wouldn't have put in a tackle?

I'm not saying it was anything strictly applicable to just Scholes because it was Scholes - or the opposite to that. You'd have to ask the City players why they did what they did.

I'm simply stating my observation of what went on. I'm pointing out that those exceedingly good stats for Scholes are the result of what happened (or more precisely, what didn't happen) around him for much of what he was involved in rather than due to any exceptional play by him.

If it had me that had been brought on yesterday instead of Scoles and I'd have been given the same time and space that he was given, I'd have ended up with stats not massively worse (despite being shit). Much of the play that Scoles was involved in to clock up those stats was about the easiest play any player might get on any pitch - the easiest passes (mostly sideways or backwards) to players not under huge pressure, and no pressure at all on Scholes for when he received the ball back from those other players.

There were other parts where Scholes did more and with more involvement and pressure from the City players, but a large part of what he was involved with was about as easy as it gets. Hence the great stats.

Edited January 9, 2012 by eFestivals

[kaosmark2]

Or that evra cost united a goal, or kolarov cost city a goal.

No mistakes no goals.

[kaosmark2]

Of course not... but they can tell as many lies as truths... and as many truths as lies...

The stats don't tell you Scholes cost united a goal yesterday...

[kaosmark2]

Which again, won't show on a stat sheet...

[kaosmark2]

I believe some of the Prem teams use a special system to produce pages full of stats... I wonder how much the manager looks at them...

For all the "success" Scholes return looks like on paper... The reality is he created no goals and cost the team one. Of course, I accept, there is more to it than that as well. But you see my point surely...

Its not a stats sport...

You could have 40 corners, 99% possession and lose 2-0...

[The Nal]

Oh, I don't disagree that stats aren't hugely significant, but they can provide useful indicators. I'm just saying they have some meaning.

Edited January 9, 2012 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

I do love how peoplke posting this sort of mindless idiocy think they're in the moral highground above Liverpool.

However crassly Liverpool have acted around this, they at least have a strong moral purpose behind their stance in supporting their player who they believe has been wrongly accused (and Evra's current line makes it an indisputable fact that Suarez WAS wrongly accused).

Meanwhile there's others being racist because they think it's funny.

Make up your own minds.

[eFestivals]

Good work

you're ever the good guy eh, laughing at racism.

Oh, I forgot, only Liverpool can be racist and not anyone commenting on it or those laughing along. How silly of me.

Hung drawn and quartered by your own laughter. Will you be hanging yourself or will you need someone to help?

What's that? Your ignorance is your excuse? Who'd have thought it.

Edited January 9, 2012 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

I do love how peoplke posting this sort of mindless idiocy think they're in the moral highground above Liverpool.

However crassly Liverpool have acted around this, they at least have a strong moral purpose behind their stance in supporting their player who they believe has been wrongly accused (and Evra's current line makes it an indisputable fact that Suarez WAS wrongly accused).

Meanwhile there's others being racist because they think it's funny.

Make up your own minds.

[Benj]

I do love how peoplke posting this sort of mindless idiocy think they're in the moral highground above Liverpool.

However crassly Liverpool have acted around this, they at least have a strong moral purpose behind their stance in supporting their player who they believe has been wrongly accused (and Evra's current line makes it an indisputable fact that Suarez WAS wrongly accused).

[eFestivals]

No moral highground or racism. Just childish banter from me.

perhaps, but what results from it is people laughing along with racism.

I'd have put you as smart enough to realise that.

Suarez wasn't wrongly accused by the way. Its all there for anyone to read in the FAs report. Which Liverpool haven't appealed.

the FA report proves the fact that he was wrongly accused: the original accusation by Evra was that he was called 'nigger' on the pitch. The report dismisses that as incorrect, therefore the original accusation has been proven as wrong.

So it's hardly an outrage that Liverpool defended themselves from what is now regarded by everyone involved as a wrong accusation.

Nothing of what I've written there is any comment on the changed accusation that Suarez was found guilty of.

[eFestivals]

hahahahhahah, if it was Utd doing what LFc had done, i suspect your opinion would be HUGELY different! You're also often the first to post such things!

if you think I'd have been making posts to have people laughing along at racism then you've either misunderstood what I was getting at with those words or you've completrely misunderstood everything about me.

You have no idea if what LFC did was "supporting their player who they believe has been wrongly accused" or simply an effort to get him the smallest ban possible/ let off.

Neither do we.

I do, LFC do, and you do.

Evra's original accusation was that he was called 'nigger' by Suarez. No one - even Evra - is saying that's the case now.

Nothing of that is any comment on the changed accusation that the panel made a judgement on.

Folk are allowed to mock as you would if it was Utd, anyone with any modicum of intelligence, know that LFC are in no way a racists organisation, similarly they would probably not say they were one with 'strong moral purpose' as opposed to a Football club and business, where success in the number one goal.

Mock Liverpool all you like.

Just do it in a way which doesn't have people laughing along with racism.

[eFestivals]

LMAO

I am laughing at his childishness....

It was pretty funny...

yes, it's always funny to laugh along with racism, eh?

So ignorance is your excuse, I've got that part. Shame it's so at odds with the days and days that you posted that ignorance is no excuse.