Football 2011-2012

[ralph250]

let's hope all the other Utd fans are listening then - they haven't been so far, but you've chosen not to comment about their posts while you have done mine.

You're clearly operating the double standards you're trying to pin on me - yet I'm the only one saying both are guilty if considered on the same basis from what's been reported because from those reports both are.

Shame you didn't take your own advice, or dish your own advice out evenly.

There's never any bias from Utd fans, especially from those who like to think of themselves as fair minded.

[ralph250]

The statement they released was pre prepared. Was defo drafted before the FAs announcement. Its was very aggressive. They even had to take out the bit about Evra "having a history of false accusations" or whatever they said.

And it didnt even defend the charges. Hes not a racist, fine. Thats not what he was charged with though.

[kaosmark2]

From the reports of what's supposed to happened (that might not be true, but we have nothing else to go on) that's about spot on.

[thetime]

should lindegard be number 1 for the short term?

played 6 games and let in 1 goal, maybe not as talented as de gea but at the moment alot more solid.

[Wooderson]

When the findings have been published and if suarez is found to be in the wrong and guilty of the charge will you come on here and chastise him?

[Wooderson]

...given they took the whole statement down shortly after release only to put it back up shortly after under a different URL. Social media rules, and it had been copied, pasted, blogged, twittered the world over already that if they had regretted it, the damage was already done.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Wooderson

[thetime]

Explain. Given the voracity of their statement earlier this week Im confident their level of knowledge of the finer details of the case are higher than yours or mine. The media backtrack after that statement was released looked like the flaming tiretracks from a DeLorean for example. Ref: Maddock in today's Mirror.

Edited December 22, 2011 by thetime

[lost]

Luis Suarez’s Lawyer Provides Indubitable Proof That Client Isn’t Racist

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/liverpool/103555/snapshot-luis-suarezs-lawyer-provides-proof-that-client-isnt-racist.html

[ralph250]

Anyway, I consider myself a level headed footie fan who just happens to follow LFC who is as frustrated as anyone at the lack of detail surrounding this fiasco.

Edited December 22, 2011 by ralph250

[Wooderson]

They will just have to accept the rulling and get on with it if the appeal fails.

back in the mid 90s when canton got his ban, man utd suspended cantona until the end of the season in agreement with the fa.

fa back tracked on this and gave him a longer ban. Which this one thing I dont understand on the terry case as cantona was going through a court whilst the fa charged him, my understanding is they cant charge terry until police investigation/court case is over.

sometimes you might not like it, but for the good cause of your club you just need to take your medicine. This could derail liverpools chance getting anywhere near the top 4 if they get consumed by it.

[Wooderson]

Wooderson

You didn't respond to me informing you that Liverpool agreed to the "kangaroo court" at the start of the season...

[eFestivals]

I see little reason for United fans to be ridiculed (8 laughter smilies) for not condemning Evra when to date there is nothing definitive against him.

the exact same is true for Suarez, even with the panel having given their judgement. Until we see the basis of that judgement there are no grounds (on how you want it played for Evra ) to call Suarez racist. There are only grounds to say he's been guilty of abuse with words that made a reference to skin colour but not necessarily as part of the abuse.

It's not some Utd fans here tho, has it. But it's me you've chosen to condemn and not them.

In contrast the reporting in respect of Suarez has been far more definitive, hence me happy to go from press reports for Suarez's wrongdoing, but not the same reports for Evra's wrongdoing

they're newspaper reports, where the accuracy for ALL is unknown.

It's not some Utd fans here tho, has it. But it's me you've chosen to condemn and not them.

It doesn't say there was an allegation that Suarez used the term Negro. There appears to be a statement of fact which one would presume is corroborated by the guilty verdict,

right, so papers can have the accurate inside track on as private hearing for Suarez, but not for Evra.

Equally that the whole defence seemed to rest on attempting to prove cultural differences regards the meaning of a word, strongly implies an admission of using that word or being proved to have used that word.

It's still unprovable paper talk at this time, no different to what's been said of Evra.

Except that's not actually true. There's a more solid source for what's been said of Evra, from someone who we know for sure was actually involved in the hearing.

As for the word supposedly used by Suarez, that might make him guilty of the charge by default (it depends how the panel have viewed things), but proves nothing of the intent - and for what those Utd fans have posted here, the intent is everything and the word used means nothing.

that's not the only conclusion

a fact that applies to both parties at the hearing - but not how you've chosen to dish out your posts here.

If you were being the fair and reasonable you're trying (pretending?) to be now, then where are you posts to the Utd fans who posted bollocks here, when you felt the need to comment on my more even analysis (that might also be bollocks, but at least it's making a real attempt at being even handed bollocks).

16th October "Luis is adamant he has not used language of that nature and the club is totally supportive of the player". That club statement sticks a bit for me.

"language of that nature" - the nature being racist? So nothing has changed, not a jot.

[eFestivals]

I'm just not sure Liverpool's firm stance and antagonistic response would've fit had they been given notice from the off that Suarez had said negro.

your posts have continually shown that you've little acceptance of the cultural possibilities and nuances. That just shows you as a fool.

You even stated that Suarez was probably putting it on in appearing to be consilatory - you've hung drawn and quartered him against about the4 most solid fact that observers like us have. You've treated him as dishonest by default by saying that - have you treated Evra in the same way and said it's probably the case that Evra made it up?

Then followed by Kenny's "whoever is the guilty party, whether it's the person who said it or the accuser, [should] get their due punishment". further fuelling things between the clubs, with the implication of Evra being the liar.

So Evra's allowed to put out there that he thinks Suarez has been racist, but no counter to that is permitable?

If you think the accused should be allowed no public comment, then the only fair way to deal with things would be for the accusations to be private too. They're not.

There's a public accusal; there's a public rebutal & counter-accusal. Care to tell me what's unfair about that?

A whole load of partisan bollocks between the clubs ensueing. Now, perhaps I'm wrong but I'm just not sure Kenny would've said that with as much conviction if he had notice of Suarez saying Negro.

you really need to wise up about the rest of the world ralph. You're coming across as incredibly provincial, that the whole world works how you think it does - including only perfection from one direction.

and an FA charge and finding of guilt. A decision they wouldn't have arrived at easily.

a decision they can arrive at wrongly.

a decision they can arrive at with them thinking that Suarez's words were not a racial slur.

I'm not denying that Evra might be guilty too, just think its best to wait.

perhaps post that at the Utd fans posating here and gloating then, and not me who thinks no different to you?

Strange that you didn't. I wonder why not.

And, I agree that the FA should bring charges without being prompted if insult with reference to nationality was made, but if its no more than he called him the C word, then they clearly wouldn't, and hence would need prompting. Technically by saying the C word, he could be accused of misconduct (which is what Suarez has been found guilty of) but then they'd have a gazillion cases a week if looking to persue that themselves.

those gazzillion cases wouldn't have been admitted to their faces tho.

And the simple fact with offensive language of all kinds - racism included - is that it's the offence caused that matters most, and not the words used to caused the offence. If I call you a kiddy fiddler, I'm sure you'd take that as more offensive than a racial 'pasty face'.

I'm being non-committal

as I've been all the way thru, from the very start, and still now. But you posted to me, and not those gloating Utd fans. How strange.

I've not come on here to call Suarez a racist. I've come here to say best to wait until calling Evra one

and it's best to wait until calling Suarez one too. So go post that in the face of those Utd fans who posted here last night, and forget about posting your double-standards crap at me.

[Wooderson]

I just think it requires Evra being nailed for something nigh on equivalent to Suarez now. Absence of that, and you've left yourself far too open and could set back what I'd hoped had been progress in terms of combatting prejudice in football. What message does it send to someone who suffers racist abuse; knowing if they report it, they could get a complete character assassination like Evra has.

[eFestivals]

They will just have to accept the rulling and get on with it if the appeal fails.

back in the mid 90s when canton got his ban, man utd suspended cantona until the end of the season in agreement with the fa.

fa back tracked on this and gave him a longer ban. Which this one thing I dont understand on the terry case as cantona was going through a court whilst the fa charged him, my understanding is they cant charge terry until police investigation/court case is over.

sometimes you might not like it, but for the good cause of your club you just need to take your medicine. This could derail liverpools chance getting anywhere near the top 4 if they get consumed by it.

The 'club ban' that the FA approved of was them simply agreeing that he shouldn't play until they had their own hearing. It wasn't "back tracking".

And that case was entirely different. The wrongdoing was beyond all and any dispute; the FA handed out their football punishment, and separately the crown handed out their criminal sanction. Neither was at risk of interfering with the other.

It's different with the Terry case. If the FA were to find him guilty now, then that prejudices the more important criminal proceedings.

And of course if Terry is found guilty in court, then that makes the FA's job easy in finding him guilty too.

[Kowalski]

Given that Suarez has a history for being a scum bag (spitting, biting, deliberate handballs, gesturing to fans etc...) Liverpool and their fans are best to shut up and wait and see what happens with the disclosure of the evidence and the subsequent appeal. They are making themselves look so stupid, especially King Kenny who I am rapidly losing any respect for.

[eFestivals]

Given that Suarez has a history for being a scum bag (spitting, biting, deliberate handballs, gesturing to fans etc...) Liverpool and their fans are best to shut up and wait and see what happens with the disclosure of the evidence and the subsequent appeal. They are making themselves look so stupid, especially King Kenny who I am rapidly losing any respect for.

Given that Evra has a history of making up bollocks to try and drop the respresentatives of other clubs in the shit with lies, Utd and their fans are best to shut up and wait and see what happens with the disclosure of the evidence and the subsequent charge he should face. They are making themselves look so stupid, especially Fergie who I am rapidly losing any respect for.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander too.

Just because Suarez has been found guilty it doesn't mean that Evra's publicly made allegations contained only truth.

Edited December 22, 2011 by eFestivals

[Kowalski]

Just because Suarez has been found guilty it doesn't mean that Evra's publicly made allegations contained only truth.

[pink_triangle]

Does anyone believe that there is any chance that jt with the top legal team that money cam buy will be found guilty. Look at the gerrard case, from memory amazingly the only innocent person was the millionaire footballer. I hope I'm proven wrong but am sure the slimy terry will get away with it. Then again as a Wales fan I very much hope he is leading England in euro 2012!

[eFestivals]

Even though Suarez has admitted it!?

Suarez has admitted using a certain word just once, and that word isn't racist by default.

Evra's accusation is of nine or ten occasions (I forget which now), along with a statement that it would all be obvious on the cameras (which it appears to have not been, tho that doesn't necessarily prove anything either way).

[eFestivals]

Does anyone believe that there is any chance that jt with the top legal team that money cam buy will be found guilty. Look at the gerrard case, from memory amazingly the only innocent person was the millionaire footballer. I hope I'm proven wrong but am sure the slimy terry will get away with it. Then again as a Wales fan I very much hope he is leading England in euro 2012!

It appears that Terry's a slimy git - I believe it's the case that the "Terry shagged Bridge's ex" story was one he gave the papers in exchange for them not running another far worse story complete with pictures (which funnily enough would have also seen him in court).

But, from what's in the public domain with this case, it's looking like it's going to be damned hard for him to escape this one. We'll have to wait and see.

[pink_triangle]

There's a couple of things that might turn that around tho ... firstly I'm guessing that Liverpool are defo going to go and buy someone for up-front; they might have done anyway but with Suarez likely to be missing for the best part of 2 months that's going to be more necessary than it was before.

And secondly, 'Arry's going down.

[pink_triangle]

It appears that Terry's a slimy git - I believe it's the case that the "Terry shagged Bridge's ex" story was one he gave the papers in exchange for them not running another far worse story complete with pictures (which funnily enough would have also seen him in court).

But, from what's in the public domain with this case, it's looking like it's going to be damned hard for him to escape this one. We'll have to wait and see.

[kaosmark2]

Looking at how gerrard, bowyer and woodgate all got off for things the common man would have been convicted for, I have a feeling it will be no different for JT. For all the criticism of the so called kangaroo court, do people really have more confidence in the british legal system?

[pink_triangle]

Paul McGrath: "As an ex-footballer having experienced racist comments throughout my career I was saddened to see Liverpool players wear those t-shirts last night. I would have been much happier if they had worn anti-racism t-shirts."

Liverpool getting a lot of bad press about the tshirts and their reaction in general. Rightly so.

Also found Kennys "Lets not let him walk alone" comment quite nauseating in a cringing type of way. You'll Never Walk Alone is the club motto. We get it!! Like a WWE catchphrase.

Unless the ban is scratched, the fine is wiped and Suarez is found 100% innocent on appeal (not going to happen), Suarez, Daglish and the entire club are going to be left looking very silly.