"Multiculturalism is an Utter Failure"

[TheGayTent]

The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel: "lmmigrants should learn to speak German"

Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

[eFestivals]

More here

Didn't Germany try to eliminate Multiculturism before? Didn't end well from what I remember...

If you're trying to infer the same onto the UK - which I wouldn't put past you, as it's standard tory view (tho you might not be a standard tory) - then there's a big difference: in Germany, their immigrants have been kept outside of 'normal' German society, while that's not been (as much, at least) the case with Britain.

So while what Merkel has said might be reasonable and applicable to Germany (I don't know enough to know one way or another), it doesn't by default say the same of other countries.

But Merkel's words probably has more to do with internal party politics - there's an election coming up - than anything really meaningful. It's probably the case that her party needs to try and attract the racist vote in a similar way to how the tories need to do that in the UK: they bang on about immigration has been a bad thing, then do nothing about it.

[The Nal]

More here

Didn't Germany try to eliminate Multiculturism before? Didn't end well from what I remember...

[TheGayTent]

If you're trying to infer the same onto the UK - which I wouldn't put past you,

[worm]

Multi-culturalism was a failure from the very beginning. What we need is cross-culturalism, which incorporates diversity, assimilation and integration. Where multi-culturalism creates a designated boundary within cultures, cross-culturalism provides relations between cultures.

In the words of Heidegger, 'a boundary is not the place where something ends, but where something begins its presencing.'

Multi-culturalism is being phased out now. The rhetoric still remains though.

[worm]

Multiculturalism is brilliant in this country to a large extent

[eFestivals]

You really are an ignorant c**t bag

I'm "an ignorant c**t bag" only to those who take my words o0ut of the context I used.

Are the tories racist when it suits them to be politically? Without a shadow of any doubt.

[eFestivals]

People turning up, bumming off the state and living a secluded life doesn’t help anyone. The Germans and Nordic countries have a big issue with immigration anyway so theres nothing wrong with Merkel saying they should make more of an effort, to help dispel the myth.

What myth?

Whatever immigrants to Germany might have liked to do, they've not been allowed to. The Germans have, as a nation, taken the view "we're German, and you're not and never can be" (which is a very different view to the view that the UK has taken). If anything has failed in Germany with 'multiculturalism' then its that view that German society has taken.

However, I suspect that Merkel's words were chosen very deliberately, so that they're able to be interpreted in any way that the listener chooses to interpret them. There's an election coming up.

[sifi]

The Germans still have problems integrating with themselves post der mauer, let alone anyone else. At the office where I worked in Dresden you had all the East Germans on one floor and all the ones from the West on another!

[The Nal]

What myth?

[lost]

great kababs in Germany, much better than ours

[eFestivals]

True that. I Should have used the word "fact".

And how the feck do you think they can integrate as you say they should in a country that has a long set of laws that essentially say "you can never integrate here"?

[sifi]

great kababs in Germany, much better than ours

[The Nal]

And how the feck do you think they can integrate as you say they should in a country that has a long set of laws that essentially say "you can never integrate here"?

[ampersand]

And how the feck do you think they can integrate as you say they should in a country that has a long set of laws that essentially say "you can never integrate here"?

[Alcatraz]

Christ, Merkel's getting desperate

[eFestivals]

what laws say that?

laws that give very little hope (compared to UK laws) of immigrants ever gaining German citizenship. It puts them on the outside of society and keeps them there.

Although I'm actually being unfair to Germany, because my take on things is out of date, having just googled.

What I've just discovered is that since 1990 they've had a variety of reforms (some much more recently), so that kids born in the country to 'foriegners' now get German citizenship (which they didn't previously).

Merkel is saying "multicuturalism has failed" without there yet being a generation that's had the opportunity to integrate. So she's defo talking out of her arse and not speaking with regard to the facts.

But it's good to see that Germans are clearly less hung up about fellow nationals being of strict German decent than they've been for most of the years since WW2, because of those reforms.

(Until those reforms the previous German nationality laws dated from 1913, but with the Nazi changes to that struck from them).

Edited October 18, 2010 by eFestivals

[ampersand]

laws that give very little hope (compared to UK laws) of immigrants ever gaining German citizenship. It puts them on the outside of society and keeps them there.

[worm]

But it's good to see that Germans are clearly less hung up about fellow nationals being of strict German decent than they've been for most of the years since WW2, because of those reforms.

Edited October 18, 2010 by worm

[Pogues Mcgogues]

Quite disapointed with that right enough. The words were chosen for politicaly motivated rhetoric (she can go to any Q&A and change teh description of what she meant to different groups on opposing sides of the fence). All politicians do it.

That being said, it still makes her seem a bit of an idiot.

[eFestivals]

What on earth are you on about here?

The Germans have generally spent the last 60 years reconstructing their nationality, not sustaining it. They don't give credence to the idea of a 'strict German decent'. That's the whole problem and it's no different to the problem in the UK or the rest of Europe, bar the obvious international socio-economic differences.

As I've already pointed out, some of my posts in this thread were comments on an old situation, because I wasn't aware that Germany had updated its nationality laws an awful lot in the last 20 years.

The comment of mine you quoted was a comment about them having done that. Until 1990 their nationality laws dated from 1913, with the only changes since 1913 being the Nazi additions/changes and their removal again.

So contrary to your statement, the Germans spent 45 of those 60 years sustaining a very old view of nationality and not reconstructing it as you've said.

Those laws that they sustained for all those years gave more than merely credence to the idea of a 'strict German decent'.

As ever you don't have a clue what you're talking about, as the facts get to prove.

Edited October 18, 2010 by eFestivals

[worm]

So contrary to your statement, the Germans spent 45 of those 60 years sustaining a very old view of nationality and not reconstructing it as you've said.

[worm]

As ever you don't have a clue what you're talking about, as the facts get to prove.

[dakyras]

As I've already pointed out, some of my posts in this thread were comments on an old situation, because I wasn't aware that Germany had updated its nationality laws an awful lot in the last 20 years.

The comment of mine you quoted was a comment about them having done that. Until 1990 their nationality laws dated from 1913, with the only changes since 1913 being the Nazi additions/changes and their removal again.

So contrary to your statement, the Germans spent 45 of those 60 years sustaining a very old view of nationality and not reconstructing it as you've said.

Those laws that they sustained for all those years gave more than merely credence to the idea of a 'strict German decent'.

As ever you don't have a clue what you're talking about, as the facts get to prove.

[gratedenini]

Make no bones about... The Krautistans are very very racist and insular.

Esp in Berlin and the surrounding area.

It might be understandable considering the annexing... but I was quite shocked at the abuse we used to get.. notes left on our cars (we had english and german cars).

But..when it comes to the Turks... the Krauts f**kin detest em!

I`ve mentioned it on here before.. how they hate em...but eat their kebabs alright!

A lot of the Turks live in an area of Berlin and the whole district is taken over by them... The Germans hate this and rarely venture there.

Things might be changing with the younger generation but I tell yer.. the older middle class f**kin hate them with a passion.

They also hate with the same passion, their fellow Germans from the East.

This is also understandable, because Germany has gone from being the strongest country in Europe to just another runner like us.

The reason for this of course is the wall coming down and the huge financial implications of it.

Its crippled the West and they resent it hugely.

We`d be out... and Silke would nudge me... "Eastie!" .... "Eastie"

??? How can you tell? I`d ask.... "Cos I can!" she`d reply.

It was so weird living right on the cusp of The Wall (was)... you`d be in a street... riding down it...and then, in an instant... the houses would be totally different.. shabby and with distinctly similar features.

You`d just cycled from the West to the East in 100yds.

I found it fascinating and over time.. I got to know "Easties"...and they are very differnet (naturally).

What I found disappointing, and somewhat upsetting was their total lack of interest in "me" and the kids... being from England I mean (not me personally).... hardly anyone would wonder what its like in England and what the differences are etc.

I`m fascinated to hear what its like in someone elses country.. they didnt give a shit.

coffee req.

den