"Multiculturalism is an Utter Failure"

[eFestivals]

Yet as you've already pointed out, stuff happens DESPITE those laws. If it was synonymous with society then the society would have integrated on the basis of those laws. It hasn't though has it, hence this discussion.

f**k me. not only are you trying to have a convo where you know f**k all about what you're posting, but you're being as thick as pig shit about it too.

So do please tell me ..... how exactly are people supposed to integrate on the basis of laws that say "you can't integrate"?

How on earth can you say 'German attitute' as if homogenous in a discussion about the failure of multicultural integration? The very point is that German identity is not unified; is fractured.

care to point out where I've said "all Germans without a single exception"?

I'm giving the over-riding view.

Rubbish. That's the essentialism that's been disseminated since 1945. Germany was formed in 1871 and is a socio-political domain. What is being undergone is how and what gives you a right to citizenship in this socio-political domain. This has been the discussion in German society for the past 60 years. Christ, we still have it in Britain now.

#

disseminated so much and so quickly that it took them 45 years to alter their nationality laws - and only did so then because of external pressure (from the EU) and not internal pressure.

The laws have changed. Merkel's word the other days shows that not much else has.

[worm]

how exactly are people supposed to integrate on the basis of laws that say "you can't integrate"?

Edited October 19, 2010 by worm

[eFestivals]

You were quite clearly referring to the 1990 amdendment when you said that they failed to integrate despite the implementation of it.

was I? You're far more certain about that than the writer.

I can't remember having said anything like that, or inferring it, but perhaps I have. I don't care enough to look back.

But I've been saying things far more from the other side, that there wasn't the opportunity to integrate, because the law and society at large didn't permit immigrants to properly integrate.

The law has been changed for less than a generation. Less than a generation is not enough time for any meaningful integration of immigrants.

If you have a nation that is not integrated then there is no over-riding national attitude.

Really? Is that what you think?

A smarter mind would get to realise that immigrants can never integrate in a society that does not want them to integrate and has laws which says they can't integrate.

And a smarter mind would certainly get to recognise that a society that does not want them to integrate and has laws to stop them integrating very definitely has an over-riding national attitude towards integration.

How have his words come to define German attitudes if multi-culturalism has not been fully integrated? Surely, his words only represent a certain section of German society? You keep overlooking this point every time I raise it.

I'm so glad that you know so much about what you're talking about.

Now that you've proven beyond all doubts that your brain is a vacuum with your knowledge of Germany, just please f**k off back into your made-up world and don't post any more of your know-nothing fantasy bollocks.

You seem to be clear as to what Germany and German attitudes are, yet are completely overlooking the voices of many sections of German society that have a part to play in reconstructing German nationality. Germany is fractured because certain sections aren't being represented in what consitututes Germany and being German. And here you are telling us what Germany is without their voice.

Do please show me where I've said "every German, no exceptions".

Unlike you, I know enough about Germany to know that every German isn't stuck in the past and that every German isn't racist.

None of that alters the fact that immigrants living in Germany have been excluded from becoming full members of German society, and that from that no multi-culturalism has ever really started so that it could fail.

Edited October 19, 2010 by eFestivals

[llcoolphil]

Christ ... what a f**king snoozefest!

[worm]

I gave up on the first page when I saw where it was heading.

Edited October 20, 2010 by worm

[eFestivals]

It is very tedious isn't it. Mind, you're a fine one to talk having read the dreary balls you and Neil were spouting earlier this afternoon.

Does anyone have anything interesting to say on the internet? I'm sure there was once a spark round here.

Funny how it only got "tedious" for you when your complete ignorance of Germany was fully exposed by your own know-nothing words.

[worm]

Funny how it only got "tedious" for you when your complete ignorance of Germany was fully exposed by your own know-nothing words.

[eFestivals]

Yawn!

Yawn all you like, you and both know why.

Funny how it only got "tedious" for you when your complete ignorance of Germany was fully exposed by your own know-nothing words.