Football 2010-2011

[ampersand]

However the end result of all matches is the big team 3 points and the smaller team 0 points. The scottish league may be more competitve for europa league places but the epl has the potential for more than 2 sides to compete for the title.

[pink_triangle]

Maybe i'm just explaining myself badly, but i'm not after self protection for Arsenal's position in the game. We're the only big club in the Premier league that could afford to drop out of the champs league because we're run as a proper business. I know that UEFA's proposals don't properly even the playing field, but at least they're a start.

[ampersand]

but Scotland *IS* a league where only two teams can win.

Edited August 19, 2010 by ampersand

[eFestivals]

as is england. could you honestly say that you expect man city, liverpool or arsenal to put in a serious title bid this year? cos i can't.

this year, nope.

But the Prem does have the chance of other clubs winning it (tho a limited number of others), which isn't so much the case in Scotland. In the Prem in the last few years there's been more than just Chelsea and Utd finish in top two (it's happened at least twice in the last 5 years).

When was the last time teams other than the Old Firm have finished in the top two in the SPL?

scotland is a smaller country with less teams and a smaller league. so it's expected.

I don't think the size or population of the country makes a difference to a league's competitiveness, but I'd say that the spread of that population does - and in Scotland there's two big cities, and not much else anywhere else (no offence meant). So it's hugely likely that it'll only ever be clubs from those cities who ever have a chance of winning, because of the hugely greater financial advantage it gives those clubs over the clubs from (in comparison) tiny places.

[ampersand]

this year, nope.

But the Prem does have the chance of other clubs winning it (tho a limited number of others), which isn't so much the case in Scotland. In the Prem in the last few years there's been more than just Chelsea and Utd finish in top two (it's happened at least twice in the last 5 years).

When was the last time teams other than the Old Firm have finished in the top two in the SPL?

[eFestivals]

yeah but with those other teams, were they part of a top two? like years ago, the top two was man utd and arsenal. then chelsea came along and took arsenals place. who's to say that man city won't just take man utd's place and it will still be a top two. might be more interesting than the same top two in scotland but it's a top two all the same. least that's the way i think it will go (and you )

Nope, it's been a true "top four" with any of those four capable of winning - those other teams who've come 2nd in the last few years are Arsenal and Liverpool, who've displaced Chelsea or Utd (i forget which) in those years - which has in the last year expanded to be a "top 6" or even perhaps a "top 7" .... tho I guess it probably won't be the case that things will be sustained with those 6 or 7.

none taken. livingston don't have a hope in hell of every selling out our 10,000 seater stadium unless celtic or rangers come to visit.

aberdeen would have a similar potential as the edinburgh teams i would think if they just got their finger out. but no, there's no sign of anything happening to upset the top two in scotland. although with results at the weekend, hopefully the gap is closing slightly.

While Aberdeen maybe have the potential via its possible fanbase, what they do have against them is their location - I suspect that to the average might-move-anywhere player it's quite possibly one of the least attractive places they could end up playing, due to nothing more than its isolation.

[Steve P]

while I get where you're coming from with that, it's not really true. Any business is able to cut it's cloth to suit the circumstances - whether or not they chose to do that is something else entirely.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Steve P

[ralph250]

In the Prem in the last few years there's been more than just Chelsea and Utd finish in top two (it's happened at least twice in the last 5 years).

[eFestivals]

What CHelsea and City are doing is effectively "buying business", if you know what i'm getting at. Other clubs can do that, but only for a short period before they'd have either be successful or cut back accordingly.

Not if every club is allowed to find their own sugar daddy.

Arsenal has benefitted from having richer owners than other clubs over the years, which had led to where they sit now, even if the money involved back then was much less than the sums being chucked around by the likes of Roman and the Sheik.

So ultimately it really does come down to you wanting the drawbridge pulled up so that other clubs can't do what Arsenal have done, and Arsenal's position at the top is protected.

In part yes, but I think there's more to it than that.

the only 'more' I'm seeing is the way that football turned from a sporting competition into a money competition many years ago (at the start of the Prem in England).

I'm not trying to claim everything before that was rosey - money has always been a factor to some extent - but a simple look at the tables right thru Europe from more than 20 years ago compared to the last 20-ish years gets to see that where there was far more competition in the past (as shown by a wide variety of winners) things have been slimmed down to there now only being winners from a very small number of clubs in any league.

True, but if UEFA want their competitions to be exciting and less predictable they've got to try something and start somewhere don't they?

But what's the point if it changes nothing, and in fact makes things less competitive?

By doing what they are, they are ultimately saying "Shitty is barred from ever being able to enter the Chumps League" .... and it follows from that that "Arsenal will always be in the Chumps League", because no one else will ever have the finances to mount a challenge to displace them.

If UEFA are serious about making things more competitive then they need to do far more. This change by itself will make things less competitive, not more.

Ok well taking your Arsenal and Stoke examples. Arsenal may have been in the top division for a long time, but only recently have we regularly challenged for things. After winning the league in 71 it was 18 years before we won it again. During that time we were dross mostly, often didn't seel out games and often struggled to stay in the league. Had we gone down who knows what could have happened. Stoke were just as big a side as us in the 70's but due to bad management got demoted. Prior to us winning the double in 98 I doubt anyone would have ranked us as one of the top 4 sides in the league. WHat I'm getting at is that there was nothing pre-ordained about our position the the eglish game as it stands, just a good slice of luck and decent managment on and off field.

You're showing just how young you are!!

Cup final appearances (and wins?). Cup Winners Cup. George Graham. Etc.

Arsenal might have had duff years now and then but always remained in the top flight (which was more than Utd managed - but won't ever happen again outside of someone running off with the money [which has already happened, so might be soon ]) ... there's no club which has Arsenal's top-flight record!

You mention 'bad management', but the only real "bad management" that counts nowadays is bad financial management (eg: Leeds). Bad footballing management can now be overcome with spondoolies - as Spurs and others have shown in recent seasons with mid-season management changes and big mid-season spends.

I don't much disagree with what you say about nothing being pre-ordained.... but the same as with Utd, you've benefited via where you were positioned at the start of the Prem; the clubs who were at the top at the start are the clubs that are still there, because the extra money that's come via the Prem has enabled you to buy that lead forever. You've not had to gamble on reaching the top as Leeds did, and you've not needed a sugar daddy as others have.

What UEFA are proposing merely cements things as they are. They don't make things more competitive, they make things less competitive by ensuring that no other clubs can ever have the amount of money that you already have.

[eFestivals]

Actually just the once in the last 5 seasons. Need to go back 6 seasons for Arsenal breaking the top 2. Liverpool obviously did it couple years ago.

my apologies - I didn't bother checking, and thought it was more recently than it is that Arsenal came 2nd.

Anyway, that one year difference doesn't really affect the point I was making.

[Steve P]

Is brittle bone disease contageous? I'm beginning to wonder if there's been an outbreak at the Arsenal training groud as Nasri is now going to be out for a month after having an operation on his knee. Just how many injury prone players can we have, it's beyond belief. Or maybe there a young lady with giant jubblies that works in the physio room that they're all trying to take a crack at.

[Steve P]

Recreation of the last 15 minutes of the 1982 Germany vs France game - really is worth watching

link

[Steve P]

So Gallas looks set to join Spurs then. Been funny to see what's happened to him since the end of the season. We only offered him a one year deal which he turned down as he wanted 2 years. Since then he's been linked with loads of clubs, but none were willing to cover his wages. Now it looks like he'll join the spuds on a 1 year deal. He's still a good player on his day, but those days don't seem to come that often now. Maybe a change of club will bring the best out of him but I doubt it. He's also proved to be very injury prone throughout his time at Arsenal, and I can't see that changing. Just how many injury prone centre backs do the spuds want?

ANyway just wanted to say cherrio to Gallas, you won't be missed.

[TheGayTent]

Arsenal might have had duff years now and then but always remained in the top flight (which was more than Utd managed - but won't ever happen again outside of someone running off with the money [which has already happened, so might be soon ]) ... there's no club which has Arsenal's top-flight record!

[Sparticus]

Actually just the once in the last 5 seasons. Need to go back 6 seasons for Arsenal breaking the top 2. Liverpool obviously did it couple years ago.

whilst i love your stats, the stats don't tell the full story. Last year especially was a three horse race, and arsenal were in it up until april (didn't they have two back to back losses, or two in three games? was in america at the time so wasn't paying much attention to the premiership).

Still interested to see how city go along this season, if they can gel then there's some serious talent in that team, that's a massive if though.

[luckysalt]

Nope, it's been a true "top four" with any of those four capable of winning - those other teams who've come 2nd in the last few years are Arsenal and Liverpool, who've displaced Chelsea or Utd (i forget which) in those years - which has in the last year expanded to be a "top 6" or even perhaps a "top 7" .... tho I guess it probably won't be the case that things will be sustained with those 6 or 7.

[eFestivals]

Everton?

perhaps you're right, tho isn't it the case that Arsenal have only ever been in the top flight*?

(* tho if memory serves me right they shouldn't have done, but war or something interrupted them getting demoted...? )

Edited August 20, 2010 by eFestivals

[TheGayTent]

perhaps you're right, tho isn't it the case that Arsenal have only ever been in the top flight*?

(* tho if memory serves me right they shouldn't have done, but war or something interrupted them getting demoted...? )

[Steve P]

No they have been in the 2nd division more than once - not for a long time mind, think around the time of WWI. They got 'promoted' to the top flight despite not earning it through league position - 'same old arsenal, always cheating'...and I believe at the expense of a certain Tottenham Hotspur...

[pink_triangle]

BBC reporting that bournemouth cant agree terms with a bournemouth player. Its amazing a premiership club struggling to recruit league 1 players. I suspect many players would pick championship clubs ahead of them which is a bit sad really.

[Steve P]

BBC reporting that bournemouth cant agree terms with a bournemouth player. Its amazing a premiership club struggling to recruit league 1 players. I suspect many players would pick championship clubs ahead of them which is a bit sad really.

[jump]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23869196-second-england-player-in-a-week-wins-gagging-order-over-private-life-revelations.do

I don't get why Terry was exposed but other players get the gagging order enforced though?

[ampersand]

here's a little game i've made, courtesy of the bbc. spot the ugly one

[funkymp]

another 6 nil unbelievable, martinez surely cant last much longer at wigan.

drogba is on a different world to anyone else in the league atm in my opinion. absolutely amazing again today.

[ampersand]

told you ross

and 3 six nils already. best league in the world