Things that ur happy about

[bunique]

Do "perfectly ordinary" people become paedophiles?

[feral chile]

Do "perfectly ordinary" people become paedophiles?

Well in our society, the terms are mutually exclusive. I suppose I mean someone who's not particularly predatory or sadistic, who would otherwise be harmless.

[bunique]

Isn't that a very tabloid perception of paedophiles though, that they are predatory and sadistic? Plenty of sexual abusers are "ordinary" in their daily lives, harmless perhaps - save for the fact they're abusing (usually) their own child or relative or acquaintance. I don't think anyone who harbours a desire to have sexual contact with a child could ever be described as ordinary. I don't think paedophilia sits on the same spectrum that includes asexuality, heterosexuality and homosexuality.

[bunique]

You say "in our society" - are there societies where sexual interest in children is accepted?

[bunique]

Don't get me wrong, I do think there should be resources available to those who recognise they pose a possible risk to children. But I think paedophiles are made, not born.

[bunique]

Also, as for the guy who "fought so hard" against his attraction to children yet still molested them- err, what? I'm attracted to men, I do manage to not rape them, as do vast swathing majorities of hetero and homosexual people. The "I couldn't get help" is a bullshit excuse for a lack of self-control and a willingness/desire to abuse a child.

[bunique]

Woah, this went off topic, sorry!

[feral chile]

You say "in our society" - are there societies where sexual interest in children is accepted?

There used to be, apparently. We got taught that in some societies, part of the initiation into adulthood was sexual initiation with a trusted adult.

It's a concept that I've come across both in Psychology and Philosophy - that valuing children can be a shared cultural value, but the way it expresses itself can differ.

We were further taught that it's the incongruity between cultural values and the abuse that causes the damage, with children only becoming distressed when the abuse was discovered, or when they became aware that it wasn't considered acceptable.

It's an idea that we all struggled with, and of course, we had to be trained to be objective, as therapists would likely be Psychology graduates.

[feral chile]

Also, as for the guy who "fought so hard" against his attraction to children yet still molested them- err, what? I'm attracted to men, I do manage to not rape them, as do vast swathing majorities of hetero and homosexual people. The "I couldn't get help" is a bullshit excuse for a lack of self-control and a willingness/desire to abuse a child.

If you were prohibited from heterosexual sex altogether though, that might prove difficult. Paedophiles might not be attracted to every child, just like heterosexual people are not attracted to every member of the opposite sex. But if you were obsessively attracted to a man who you shouldn't be...

Edited February 26, 2014 by feral chile

[bunique]

Initiation into adulthood suggests puberty though - I would say that differs from abusing a pre-pubescent child.

[bunique]

Prohibiting sex doesn't then necessitate rape. I have every sympathy for the individual who seeks help when the thought it still a thought. Once the line is crossed into action though, my sympathy runs out

[feral chile]

(I don't think I should have tried to google the country where this is considered acceptable - my browser ust gave me a message to say my browsing activity was set to private now).

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

But I think paedophiles are made, not born.

How so?

[bunique]

If it were the case that children only exhibit distress after the fact, why is a common feature of disclosure the threats by the abuser over the abused - "if you tell I'll kill you/your family/you'll be taken away" etc etc. If the 'wrongness' of it is defined after the fact you would not expect the running theme of coercion.

[feral chile]

Prohibiting sex doesn't then necessitate rape. I have every sympathy for the individual who seeks help when the thought it still a thought. Once the line is crossed into action though, my sympathy runs out

Firstly, a lot of paedophiles think their victim is willing, as they've used seduction rather than force. I'm sympathetic to the extent that I can imagine what a nightmare it would be if I ever felt attracted to someone a lot younger than me, and at my age, I'm thinking well above the age of consent.

I can't really conceive how they ever make the transition from knowing they're outside societal acceptable norms, to crossing the boundary altogether.

[bunique]

How so?

Early childhood experiences, attachment disorders, neglect, abuse.

[feral chile]

If it were the case that children only exhibit distress after the fact, why is a common feature of disclosure the threats by the abuser over the abused - "if you tell I'll kill you/your family/you'll be taken away" etc etc. If the 'wrongness' of it is defined after the fact you would not expect the running theme of coercion.

Is that what happens? I don't know. But you're talking about the psychology of the abuser, who knows they're doing wrong, which presumably would then alert the child.

What about those who turn it into a game, their little secret, or told this is how much the adult loves them?

[bunique]

I still see that as manipulation and coercion and I think children are astute enough to recognise the "wrongness" of that.

Actually, not all children, and I suppose it's those who can't who are most vulnerable.

[feral chile]

When I was 12, I used to go to the local YMCA disco, and was totally naïve. There were men in their 20s in there, and I got targeted by one of them, who started kissing me. I didn't know anything was wrong, I assumed this was what must be expected to happen, as I was new to all this.

I did spot him giving the thumbs up surreptitiously to one of his mates, which seemed furtive enough to scare me, and a friend, who was much more worldly wise than I was, ripped into me and acted like I'd done something terrible.

So I had no instinct that I was being groomed, and I was very lucky.

I later discovered that the man running the disco was a predatory paedophile. I discovered it as an adult, from a male friend who had been abused from my perspective, and who had had a relationship with him, from his perspective. Who still believed that while this guy had used all the other boys, that he was special, and different.

I also know someone who refused to testify against an abuser from a children's care home, on the grounds that 'he was nice, he never forced us'.

Edited February 26, 2014 by feral chile

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Early childhood experiences, attachment disorders, neglect, abuse.

Your probably right there. I have very little understanding of the subject, which led to my rather naive conclusion that they must be born that way. I should have known better though as I've just remembered that I have read Stuart. A Life Backwards, a true story of where the abused becomes an abuser.

[bunique]

That's perhaps a sad reflection of the victim's own emotional health both at the time and now.

[bunique]

YOAS - I'm only supposing; am too scared to google "causes of paedophilia"!

[feral chile]

Your probably right there. I have very little understanding of the subject, which led to my rather naive conclusion that they must be born that way. I should have known better though as I've just remembered that I have read Stuart. A Life Backwards, a true story of where the abused becomes an abuser.

YOAS - I'm only supposing; am too scared to google "causes of paedophilia"!

Not all abused children become abusers, so I'm not totally convinced that paedophiles are made, they still have a choice. Though I'm sure if they've learnt that this sort of thing is the norm, then they find it easier to cross the line. Particularly if they don't recognise that they've been damaged by their experience.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

YOAS - I'm only supposing; am too scared to google "causes of paedophilia"!

No worries. I don't think I was thinking straight anyway. I've only had a few hours sleep in 3 days and it's begining to affect me now. It's the result of self abuse, but that's another story.

[eFestivals]

Isn't that a very tabloid perception of paedophiles though, that they are predatory and sadistic? Plenty of sexual abusers are "ordinary" in their daily lives, harmless perhaps - save for the fact they're abusing (usually) their own child or relative or acquaintance. I don't think anyone who harbours a desire to have sexual contact with a child could ever be described as ordinary. I don't think paedophilia sits on the same spectrum that includes asexuality, heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Are those who abuse (just) their own child(ren) classed as paedos?

To my mind, paedos are those with a sexual attraction to children (any children that take their fancy), whereas I've always thought (I may be wrong) that for those who abuse their own child or children its more about that parent/child relationship than it is about an attraction to children.

Perhaps both of those do class as paedos, but I've always thought of them as different things with distinctly different motivations driving them.