UK Politics

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think a fair comparison would be by-elections when opposition. To be in charge when PM seems very different.

Don’t worry we’ll get that chance soon enough with Starmer. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I mean labour treated a better than expected loss to Theresa May as a victory, politicians will always try and put a positive spin on things.

I agree voters aren’t massively enthusiastic about Starmer, the question I would always ask myself s would they be massively enthusiastic about an alternative. I think they would be less enthusiastic about RLB (who came second in the leadership contest) others may disagree. One thing I think is people won’t actively vote against Starmer as many did Corbyn last time around.

As for wanting something radical, I’m sure that applies to some, my instinct is that there aren’t a load of swing voters screaming out for radical policies, I think incremental change is probably the most realistic. Voters had the opportunity to vote radical in the last 2 elections and chose not to take that option.

History shows us that voters tends to vote for people that incremental, competent change. When given the option in 2017 and 2019 of fairly radical change they chose the opposite on both occasions. Then when the opposition gives them the choice of something less radical it appears the voters are more receptive. 
 

These people that claim the public want this transformational change always fail to ignore the fact that when given that option the public said no and even sided with Theresa May.

[steviewevie]

22 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I mean labour treated a better than expected loss to Theresa May as a victory, politicians will always try and put a positive spin on things.

I agree voters aren’t massively enthusiastic about Starmer, the question I would always ask myself s would they be massively enthusiastic about an alternative. I think they would be less enthusiastic about RLB (who came second in the leadership contest) others may disagree. One thing I think is people won’t actively vote against Starmer as many did Corbyn last time around.

As for wanting something radical, I’m sure that applies to some, my instinct is that there aren’t a load of swing voters screaming out for radical policies, I think incremental change is probably the most realistic. Voters had the opportunity to vote radical in the last 2 elections and chose not to take that option.

that something radical will be 2029 with Farage leading Reform to power.

Edited February 16, 2024 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

that something radical will 2029 with Farage leading Reform to power.

I think in the right scenario with the right leader, a more radical labour leader could be successful. The trouble with Corbyn was the messenger as much as the message. A younger, charismatic lefty without the baggage, who has been careful in their social media, then who knows.

[Neil]

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Reform, like with UKIP before them, will have higher numbers in by-elections to try and scare Tories into behaving as they want them to. I wouldn't be surprised if they're high, but I still don't believe they'll get seats.

Might be a bigger deal in the red wall.

just seen the old fraud on tv saying that a poll of tory members has them wanting him as leader (seemed like him pitching himself for the job to me) - he'd need to get elected first cos only MPs can be tory leader - keeps spaffer out of the picture too, which is good.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Starmer is the most successful by-election Labour leader ever. 

knnock looking good too - much easier after a disastrous leader.

[fred quimby]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Starmer is the most successful by-election Labour leader ever. 

He has been lucky with the amount he has been able to go for. Obviously due to sh*t mps and folk leaving. 

It's all about local issues and mps though 😉

[Guest]

Just now, fred quimby said:

He has been lucky with the amount he has been able to go for. Obviously due to sh*t mps and folk leaving. 

It's all about local issues and mps though 😉

He is a lucky General that is for sure either that or he’s just so great at this political game 😉

[fred quimby]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He is a lucky General that is for sure either that or he’s just so great at this political game 😉

I'll go for the former 😀

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He is a lucky General that is for sure either that or he’s just so great at this political game 😉

From my perspective he played the Corbyn situation perfectly in terms of politics, he could have made different choices and ended up like Chuka 

[lost]

29 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

From my perspective he played the Corbyn situation perfectly in terms of politics, he could have made different choices and ended up like Chuka 

Yes easy to forget the left took control of alot more of the party machinery than they did under foot. He's completely taken back control of the party before they had a clue what was happening.

[LJS]

So Starmer has moved Labour so far to the right that the leader of Scottish Labour has to promise to "stand up" to him.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwar-promises-stand-up-32131238

[Neil]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

So Starmer has moved Labour so far to the right that the leader of Scottish Labour has to promise to "stand up" to him.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwar-promises-stand-up-32131238

what happened to the last person who said they'd defend Scottish interests? and why are police Scotland so sh*t?? that she's not in jail yet!

turns out scots can rule Scotland as bad as a tory. how come the unstopable indie campaign has stopped.

Honestly, this stuff is comedy gold. But in a winner-takes-all dumb-off with Humza Yousaf’s SNP, it’s way too close to call.

Edited February 17, 2024 by Neil

[Neil]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

So Starmer has moved Labour so far to the right that the leader of Scottish Labour has to promise to "stand up" to him.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwar-promises-stand-up-32131238

Am independence supporter talking about Scotland's best interests comedy gold 

[steviewevie]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

 

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

So Starmer has moved Labour so far to the right that the leader of Scottish Labour has to promise to "stand up" to him.

 

or just to appeal to nationalist vote.

[steviewevie]

12 hours ago, Ozanne said:

He is a lucky General that is for sure either that or he’s just so great at this political game 😉

He has been lucky, but it isn't all luck. It was kind of unlucky that the Israel Hamas thing kicked off just as the party conference was starting.

Thing is with Starmer he isn't popular, he is just less unpopular than Sunak. Maybe that will change when he gets in power, but with the state of everything I very much doubt it. Trust in politicians in general is very low at moment, we're ripe for a populist takeover.

Edited February 17, 2024 by steviewevie

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It's not the swing voters that want it, it's those that likely will not bother voting as increasing numbers see no point.

if people think starmer is dull, he looks exciting alongside RLB.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I was responding to a post that you made about about by elections LOL

Still, move the goalposts to fit your narrative.

 

PS Have you admitted yet that the Green pledge from Labour has been watered down/scrapped yet or are you still fixated that Labour are pefect?

I posted that Starmer was the most successful by-election Labour leader then you went and compared the votes from a by-election to a general election, which as you know aren't comparable.

Edited February 17, 2024 by kaosmark2
please keep the snark out

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

He has been lucky, but it isn't all luck. It was kind of unlucky that the Israel Hamas thing kicked off just as the party conference was starting.

Thing is with Starmer he isn't popular, he is just less unpopular than Sunak. Maybe that will change when he gets in power, but with the state of everything I very much doubt it. Trust in politicians in general is very low at moment, we're ripe for a populist takeover.

There is an element of luck but you have to have that to win in politics but yeah I agree it's not all luck. He has done wonders to get the Labour to the position it is in.

 

Some polls show he is moderately popular but yeah he isn't the most popular politician ever but you don't need to be you just need to beat the person/party in front of you.

We've had our populist, that was Johnson and didn't work out very well.

[cellar]

These results further support the suggestion of a Labour Majority come GE. If anyone still seriously thinks it'll be a Minority, you can get 11/2 on it now.

 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It's not the swing voters that want it, it's those that likely will not bother voting as increasing numbers see no point.

That’s a political calculation though, you may not like (or you may disagree with the calculation) but that is what is in play here. Labour are effectively sacrificing pro Corbyn voters thinking they can get more valuable (either total or in more competitive constituencies) people who voted Tory in 2019. You can definitely make an intellectual argument for this approach , whether it’s effective time will tell.

[steviewevie]

At this point the Tories look f**ked. The one thing they can hold onto is the don't knows in polls and low turnouts in these by-elections.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

He has been lucky, but it isn't all luck. It was kind of unlucky that the Israel Hamas thing kicked off just as the party conference was starting.

Thing is with Starmer he isn't popular, he is just less unpopular than Sunak. Maybe that will change when he gets in power, but with the state of everything I very much doubt it. Trust in politicians in general is very low at moment, we're ripe for a populist takeover.

Who could labour pick who would be really popular with the electorate? Maybe a flip  flopper like Burnham who flips left to centre when ever it suits him, then what happens when he is on power and he has to let people down.

I don’t see Starmer as popular or unpopular, people (in general) are not actively voting against him like they did with Jez. Instead of promising the earth (and letting everyone down) his approach seems to be to give him the opportunity and he will show what he can do in power.