news & politics:discussion

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

we used to have a mixed economy until Thatcher came along and changed everything....and really we're still living with that now.

be more explicit about what you mean exactly and how it was good. 

[philipsteak]

Wish I'd gone to my dad's funeral dressed as an Admiral. Feel silly not even asking now

[mattiloy]

3 minutes ago, Homer said:

Just asked all six Qs at PMQs about it.

 

Yep and did a fair job. Credit where its due..

[eFestivals]

28 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I think so. A common misconception of centrists is that Corbynites are all ’far left’ anarchist/communist agitators.

 

somwe people have moe political experience than you and know what corbyns ideas mean in practice and Corbyn's sidekick McD had his own his history of saying certain thing

 

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In reality Corbynites/Momentum folk I met when I was in the party came from every walk of life and were just ordinary people

 

ordinary people more interested in repelling people from Corbyn than getting them on side

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who were sick and tired of being told that things have just always got to be a bit shit, when the solutions to make it better exist.

 

without offering intelligent solutions. 

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I myself studied economics BSc + MSc and now work in banking.

 

how do you live with yourself?

 

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I studied in the post financial crisis 2010s and it was clear to me and to most of my coursemates and many of my tutors (the brighter ones anyway) that the erstwhile hegemonic neoclassical model was not fit for purpose, underpinned as it is by flawed assumptions.

 

the idea of value that underpins neolibrreralism isn't one that's going away

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But these flaws have also always been known, the model is convenient because it provides academic cover for raw greed, in essence.

I’m for a mixed economy. The market has a role but not in key industries where demand is near enough perfectly inelastic and therefore customer choice and competition, the supposed main drivers of efficiency in the private sector, are missing. In that instance you get a business that can be just as inefficient as a state run business but with the profits going to shareholders (ie rail) instead of back to the treasury (although anyway, its a myth that state run enterprises are necessarily inefficient).

and when state run the workforce screw ever more wages from the govt

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Then I’m for higher taxes on dividends/capital gains.

Then things like scrapping tuition fees... constitutional reform (PR)... scrapping the lords

To me, if you’re the the right of that, if your idea of ’left wing’ is a 1.5% increase in nurses pay rather than a 0.5% increase, you are labouring (pardon the pun) under a misapprehension of the term ’left wing’.

nurses should get an extra 10% at least

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Homer said:

Just asked all six Qs at PMQs about it.

A strong showing from Starmer, who’s clearly had enough of Johnson’s non-answers.

[topmarksbri]

This is comfortable ground for KS/Labour - think it shows there's some hope post pandemic for him yet. 

39 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I think so

Forgot to call them a Blairite as well for full mattiloy bingo

[mattiloy]

22 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

This is comfortable ground for KS/Labour - think it shows there's some hope post pandemic for him yet. 

Forgot to call them a Blairite as well for full mattiloy bingo

 

Haha, goes without saying- pack of bloody Blairites the lotta yers!

[eFestivals]

30 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 

Haha, goes without saying- pack of bloody Blairites the lotta yers!

The clever thing with Blair is that he recognised what the electorate would support and what they wouldn't and he avoided the can't win battles.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

be more explicit about what you mean exactly and how it was good. 

I didn't say anything about anything being good. Just saying we used to have a mixed economy until Thatcher.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I didn't say anything about anything being good. Just saying we used to have a mixed economy until Thatcher.

E did why do you want to go back to it ever thought why a lot of the population doesn't?

For a lot of that population Thatcherism was better than that mixed economy it's all about value. The value of peopleswork was being pissed up the wall on not working ideological ideaswhere the ones who were meant to benefit generally didn't.

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

Just now, eFestivals said:

E did why do you want to go back to it ever thought want a lot of the population doesn't?

everything starts with an E.

who said I did want to go back to it?

Anyway, wasn't 2017 labour manifesto with nationalised railways and energy companies popular?

[fraybentos1]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

I think so. A common misconception of centrists is that Corbynites are all ’far left’ anarchist/communist agitators. In reality Corbynites/Momentum folk I met when I was in the party came from every walk of life and were just ordinary people who were sick and tired of being told that things have just always got to be a bit shit, when the solutions to make it better exist.

I myself studied economics BSc + MSc and now work in banking. I studied in the post financial crisis 2010s and it was clear to me and to most of my coursemates and many of my tutors (the brighter ones anyway) that the erstwhile hegemonic neoclassical model was not fit for purpose, underpinned as it is by flawed assumptions. But these flaws have also always been known, the model is convenient because it provides academic cover for raw greed, in essence.

I’m for a mixed economy. The market has a role but not in key industries where demand is near enough perfectly inelastic and therefore customer choice and competition, the supposed main drivers of efficiency in the private sector, are missing. In that instance you get a business that can be just as inefficient as a state run business but with the profits going to shareholders (ie rail) instead of back to the treasury (although anyway, its a myth that state run enterprises are necessarily inefficient).

Then I’m for higher taxes on dividends/capital gains.

Then things like scrapping tuition fees... constitutional reform (PR)... scrapping the lords

To me, if you’re the the right of that, if your idea of ’left wing’ is a 1.5% increase in nurses pay rather than a 0.5% increase, you are labouring (pardon the pun) under a misapprehension of the term ’left wing’.

I agree to all the points in bold and think nurses, carers etc deserve way more than a couple percent. I also want public transport in public hands. None of those things are radically left wing to me.

I have asked a couple times who is going to lead Labour to this type of ruling and you have offered 0 names but earlier on you said it was inevitable in not so distant future..

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

everything starts with an E.

who said I did want to go back to it?

Anyway, wasn't 2017 labour manifesto with nationalised railways and energy companies popular?

Why mention it if you don't think there's anything there worth pursuing.i remember the nationalised railways and they were shit andthe system they worked under didn't work any better than the system was have now. The govt robbed investment money every time they needed money for another project.and the worker knew if they went on strike the public would hate the govt for causing the strike and the govt would cave. And normal people objected to their tax money going to those well paid strikers who were fucking their lives about.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I also want public transport in public hands.

 

Do you also want a decents system for running it in public hands, see my last post.without a good way of running it it's no better than we currently have but costs you more.

 

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I have asked a couple times who is going to lead Labour to this type of ruling and you have offered 0 names but earlier on you said it was inevitable in not so distant future..

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Why mention it if you don't think there's anything there worth pursuing.i remember the nationalised railways and they were shit andthe system they worked under didn't work any better than the system was have now. The govt robbed investment money every time they needed money for another project.and the worker knew if they went on strike the public would hate the govt for causing the strike and the govt would cave. And normal people objected to their tax money going to those well paid strikers who were fucking their lives about.

I could have mentioned it so someone could say how shit it all was and how the 70s was fucked until Thatcher came along and made everything awesome.

Anyway, how good a nationalised railway is depends on how it's run, how well funded...and when it's the state then there is some control...other countries seem to manage it ok.

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

everything starts with an E.

who said I did want to go back to it?

Anyway, wasn't 2017 labour manifesto with nationalised railways and energy companies popular?

Individual policies were Popular but not the people who would have mplemented them?. There needs to be belief in successful delivery too.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I could have mentioned it so someone could say how shit it all was and how the 70s was fucked until Thatcher came along and made everything awesome.

Anyway, how good a nationalised railway is depends on how it's run, how well funded...and when it's the state then there is some control...other countries seem to manage it ok.

Well funded is with money that could be funding other things.look at hs2well funded but Joe public hates it?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Well funded is with money that could be funding other things.look at hs2well funded but Joe public hates it?

because they see all this money going to hs2, but their local train service is absolute shite...so funding needs to be distributed.

I actually support hs2, don't tell Chris Packham.

[mattiloy]

24 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I agree to all the points in bold and think nurses, carers etc deserve way more than a couple percent. I also want public transport in public hands. None of those things are radically left wing to me.

I have asked a couple times who is going to lead Labour to this type of ruling and you have offered 0 names but earlier on you said it was inevitable in not so distant future..

The nice thing about being a prophet is you get to be deliberately vague. It shall simply happeneth. And so it shall be.

 

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I could have mentioned it so someone could say how shit it all was and how the 70s was fucked until Thatcher came along and made everything awesome.

Anyway, how good a nationalised railway is depends on how it's run, how well funded...and when it's the state then there is some control...other countries seem to manage it ok.

Indeed, cheaper, better maintained and profitable.

But wait, he’ll go on about how this isn’t germany, or france or scandinavia. We couldn’t possible have a functioning state owned rail company because... something something Corbyn. 🥱

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The nice thing about being a prophet is you get to be deliberately vague. It shall simply happeneth. And so it shall be.

Excellent. Glad you have confirmed you are talking nonsense. I look forward to this person who doesn't exist leading Labour to victory.

Also find it hilarious that you're a banker 😂 can't make this stuff up

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

 

blimey

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

blimey

Indeed. It looks like they’ll be an SNP majority.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Indeed. It looks like they’ll be an SNP majority.

plus, Greens are pro independence (I think).

[Guest]

Just now, steviewevie said:

plus, Greens are pro independence (I think).

Yeah they are, it says in one of those tweets above they would be part of the ‘Indy’ side.