news & politics:discussion

[Rufus Gwertigan]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Nah, we voted for this so the onus should be on us to sort it out. I don’t drive into your car then expect you to sort out the mess, I’d be arranging for the insurance to cover etc. 

Voted for what? I don't understand why it is our mess. These checks have been in place since 2004 and we reciprocate by having Border Force on the French side. It was all part of the agreement reached when the French closed the immigration camps, the Le Touquet Treaty. This has very little to do with Brexit or the like.

[Ozanne]

Of course it’s to do with Brexit. This wasn’t happening before we left the EU like it is now.

To claim otherwise is to downplay the disaster that Brexit has been. There were even warnings about this that are shambles of a government ignored. 

 

[Ozanne]

 

[Ozanne]

 

[steviewevie]

another blame brexit/french for dover queues thread...

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

Even the Daily Express say it’s Brexit.

 

[Neil]

most things that get labelled as conspiracy can be put down to cock up.

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

If we were to have PR...or say we were in a parallel universe where we did have PR like Germany or some Scandinavian countries, and the parties we have now divided or didn't exist...what parties you think we'd have?
I was thinking we'd probably have 5 main parties.
1 Socialist
2. Social Democrat
3. Old school conservative (I guess what they call christian democrats in Germany)
4. right/populist
5. Green.

What do you think?

[mattiloy]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

If we were to have PR...or say we were in a parallel universe where we did have PR like Germany or some Scandinavian countries, and the parties we have now divided or didn't exist...what parties you think we'd have?
I was thinking we'd probably have 5 main parties.
1 Socialist
2. Social Democrat
3. Old school conservative (I guess what they call christian democrats in Germany)
4. right/populist
5. Green.

What do you think?

Basically yeah but you forgot a centrist party

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Basically yeah but you forgot a centrist party

That's kind of 2 and 3 and maybe 5...not sure you'd get an actual thing called a centrist party, or maybe you would.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

16 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Basically yeah but you forgot a centrist party

Would a centrist party be a main party with PR? The ones we had like Change UK did not rate in the polls that well. I think one would be there but in a small way.

As a vote with PR I would definitely lean towards Green or Social Democratic party.

[Neil]

18 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

As a vote with PR I would definitely lean towards Green or Social Democratic party.

a vote with PR would be very different to every previous vote.

[mattiloy]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

That's kind of 2 and 3 and maybe 5...not sure you'd get an actual thing called a centrist party, or maybe you would.

 

With the current system that’s kind of 2 and 3. But in PR, the individual doesn’t have to compromise. A social democrat and a liberal party should be philosophically quite different. It’s only because the UK is trapped in a two party system that the social democrat party is full of people who don’t really had much of an appetite for the social part.

In Sweden there are two centrist parties. The centre party, and the liberals. The former leans slightly left and falls in with the soc dem bloc, the latter slightly right and falls in with the cons bloc.

[Ozanne]

I wonder why there are queues at the border?

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Would a centrist party be a main party with PR? The ones we had like Change UK did not rate in the polls that well. I think one would be there but in a small way.

 

It's difficult to say. They didn't rate well in a  first past the post system which makes it harder for new parties to succeed. I assume people would vote differently if the system was different.

[Neil]

14 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

 I assume people would vote differently if the system was different.

people do, in Scotland it made the SNP mainstream which they couldn't do under FPTP.

[steviewevie]

I guess with PR more people would change who they vote for depending on circumstance etc. I could vote for any of 3 of those. 

[steviewevie]

8 hours ago, mattiloy said:

 

With the current system that’s kind of 2 and 3. But in PR, the individual doesn’t have to compromise. A social democrat and a liberal party should be philosophically quite different. It’s only because the UK is trapped in a two party system that the social democrat party is full of people who don’t really had much of an appetite for the social part.

In Sweden there are two centrist parties. The centre party, and the liberals. The former leans slightly left and falls in with the soc dem bloc, the latter slightly right and falls in with the cons bloc.

Ok ..need to add one or two centrist parties.