Women only venue

[Winslow Leach]

1 hour ago, Dave F. said:

Hmm...

Hypocrite, me thinks.

Imagine there's no context,

it's easy if you try...

[Spindles]

22 hours ago, sloseph said:

I honestly (naively) thought that Glastonbury would be one of the few places women could come and have a great time without worrying about being sexually assaulted in the crowd

The sad truth is that anywhere people are crunched together in crowds women are putting up with this, be it on public transport, at gigs or even supermarket queues.  The fact that some men think that sexual assault is "playful" needs to be sorted through education and enforcement.  As long as the debate continues people will be educated, it's going to take generations before things are anywhere near where they need to be.  We, as parents are honour bound to bring our kids up to do a better job of things than the previous generation and as Neil says, things have really improved in our lifetimes, even if we have a long way still to go.

[Charm]

3 hours ago, MissStarlight said:

Here's my view on it, and where I see this space as being really useful.

In my experience, women can be awful to each other. We can get jealous of prettier, thinner women. Some women say they'd rather their boss was a man than a woman. Think about how ridiculous that is.

I can think of so many examples where I've experienced, or witnessed, women driven by insecurity making some other woman's life difficult in some way, in a way that I haven't experienced from men - men will lear and grope, which is obviously horrific, but I'm specifically talking here about women being less than supportive towards other women.

There are so many reasons for this behaviour I think.

It is fair to say that girls have it drilled into them via various forms of media from a young age, that their value to society is instrinsically linked to how good they look, and how young they are.

What's more, our society actively celebrates women who are prepared to voluntarily objectify themselves for the sake of making money. Pop stars, models, page 3 girls - look at Katie Price for goodness sake!

It's not enough now to be an attractive female pop star. Now, you need to feature in videos where you're writhing around provocatively, wearing as little as possible. Miley Cyrus? Rhianna? Even Girls Aloud videos can be raunchy, and the dance moves suggestive. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, but it's now so prevalent across the music industry, and this is what our children are watching and aspiring to.

And the thing is, these female pop stars are likely doing this voluntarily. And I can understand why - who in their 20s wouldn't enjoy being dolled up by a hair and make up team, photoshopped, then filmed/photographed, only to have the world fall at their feet and shower them with adoration? It must be a serious ego boost.

But the impact on women in society is negative. It makes us feel like shit. 

The other factor is that with enough money, even a plain woman can transform herself to a certain degree, into something that society deems attractive - fake boobs, blonde hair, plenty of makeup etc. This creates a scenario where women aren't ever satisfied with their looks. "Oh, if I just change my hair colour, or lose an extra couple of pounds - THEN I'll be happy."

I know I am waffling here, but the point I am making is that when you reduce a whole gender down to their appearance, I think it creates friction amongst that group, it creates competition. Because the way you look isn't something you've earned or had to work for,like other skills. It's just pot luck.

Because of this constant portrayal of women in the media as sex objects, along with the fact that many women happily go along with it, at least in their youth, in order to get ahead in life, it means that instead of women supporting one another, it creates a lot of competition and friction and resentment, particularly among young women.

We can be our own worst enemies. Because by going along with it, voluntarily objectifying ourselves and convincing ourselves that it's acceptable to do so, nothing changes.

We put up with enough marginalisation in society at the hands of the men in charge - the last thing we should be doing is joining in with them and actually playing right into their hands.

So for me, I see this women's space, not as something that excludes men per se, but as a place to actually educate women themselves. To have women come together as a sisterhood. To drop all this petty competition with each other, and realise that we need to work together if we want anything to change.

 

 

 

Great post, I've had many more unpleasant experiences with women than men, women can be truly awful, if spaces like this can help us to be kinder to each other that can only be a good thing. 
Charm x

[giantkatestacks]

18 minutes ago, Charm said:

Great post, I've had many more unpleasant experiences with women than men, women can be truly awful, if spaces like this can help us to be kinder to each other that can only be a good thing. 
Charm x

Interesting, I would completely disagree but we can go into the micro venue and discuss it!

[JonSnow]

Im not sure what I find more upsetting/depressing about this story.

The fact that females feel they want and need to have this area because of the sexism that still exists in our modern society.

Or the fact that this has even turned into a story and generated any sort of controversy whatsoever.

[jumbomcnutt]

1 minute ago, JonSnow said:

Im not sure what I find more upsetting/depressing about this story.

The fact that females feel they want and need to have this area because of the sexism that still exists in our modern society.

Or the fact that this has even turned into a story and generated any sort of controversy whatsoever.

I'm with you on that. 

[Spindles]

That's a very good point to be honest.  10 years ago a women's only venue in that corner of the festival (I'm including the greenfields in my definition here, I should explain) would have gone unmentioned besides the occasional grunt of "bloody hippies" by a passer by and certainly wouldn't have made the national media.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

Since this topic came up I've been poking about the internet looking at cases for and against 'safe spaces'. Anyways after considering both sides of the equation I stick by my original conclusion that this is a bad idea and promotes sexism. I found this video that really articulates my thoughts better than I could write them in this thread ;

 

[giantkatestacks]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/09/for-many-women-metal-is-our-home-so-why-dont-we-feel-safe-at-gigs

This is interesting reading but regarding the 'safe space' thing - I don't see it like that at all - it isn't that I would want to be running away from an area with men in it as I find it unsafe, more that I am intrigued/excited to be running towards something that would be majority female.

I don't need a safe space, more a different space, a space where I might be expressing or experiencing something I don't normally - which is what we do at Glastonbury right?

[Skoo]

9 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/09/for-many-women-metal-is-our-home-so-why-dont-we-feel-safe-at-gigs

This is interesting reading but regarding the 'safe space' thing - I don't see it like that at all - it isn't that I would want to be running away from an area with men in it as I find it unsafe, more that I am intrigued/excited to be running towards something that would be majority female.

I don't need a safe space, more a different space, a space where I might be expressing or experiencing something I don't normally - which is what we do at Glastonbury right?

I totally agree with this. I think it's exciting to spend some time in a place full of women, something I haven't experienced since my school days (all girls school).

[russycarps]

8 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/09/for-many-women-metal-is-our-home-so-why-dont-we-feel-safe-at-gigs

This is interesting reading but regarding the 'safe space' thing - I don't see it like that at all - it isn't that I would want to be running away from an area with men in it as I find it unsafe, more that I am intrigued/excited to be running towards something that would be majority female.

I don't need a safe space, more a different space, a space where I might be expressing or experiencing something I don't normally - which is what we do at Glastonbury right?

Quite a bizarrely written article. I can't really understand the need for a such a strong focus on the metal aspect, which really detracted from the rest of it. This goes on at all genres of music. People are people. Their musical preferences dont affect their behaviour in any way whatsoever.

Though 89.64% of serial killers state katy perry as their favourite musical artist.

 

 

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 hour ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

I found this video that really articulates my thoughts better than I could write them in this thread ;

I can't watch this just now, I'm afraid, but there's really not much about that freeze frame that bodes well.

[5co77ie]

dunno if anyone has posted - hey I've been busy ok:

 

Quote

The Sisterhood is Glastonbury’s first woman only venue! It is an intersectional, Queer, Trans and Disability inclusive space open to all people who identify as women. Expect intergenerational workshops, talks, music, performance and dance parties to explore and celebrate everything about being a woman in the world today.

Reject the Patriarchy. Join the Sisterhood. Party on. Sisterhood is a labour of love for women, by women. All producers, bar staff, security, performers, workshop hosts are women identified. We are open to all women regardless of race, ethnicity, socioeconomic background, gender identity, sexuality, physical/mental ability.

The producers of The Sisterhood believe that women only spaces are necessary in a world that is still run by and designed to benefit mainly men.

Oppression against women continues in various manifestations around the world today, in different cultural contexts. In the UK, the gender pay gap in the workplace, cuts to domestic violence services and sex worker rights are current talking points that highlight this issue. Sisterhood seeks to provide a secret space for women to connect, network, share their stories, have fun and learn the best way to support each other in our global struggle to end oppression against women and all marginalised people, whilst showcasing the best and boldest female talent in the UK and beyond.

The Sisterhood is a hidden venue within Shangri-La which is working with the theme: Media Hell- Truth and Lies. This concept explores the deceit and distractions of the mainstream media and encourages Shangri-La citizens to question everything and seek out truth, rather than just swallowing what they read in newspapers and watch on the news.

The media often reduces women to passive, sexualised objects without any agency.

The Sisterhood is a revolutionary clubhouse for women have their voices heard on their terms.

The program includes: • Daily Workshops • Live Music, DJs (disco, bass, pop, riotgrrl, punk, funk), Cutting Edge Performance • Daily dance classes • Celebrity guests TBA

Talking Points/Highlights

• DIY power tools workshop with carpenter Rhi Jean

• Workshops on Intersectionality, diversity and inclusion with Camille Barton and Ophelia Bitz

• Intergenerational Feminist Exchange- Crones and Whippersnappers

• The Love In: A forum for black women (SUNDAY 26th) → A space for black women in the arts to connect, network and share experiences about working in predominantly white creative industries.

• Follow us on Twitter for more updates! @Join_Sisterhood

 

[KryziF]

46 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I can't watch this just now, I'm afraid, but there's really not much about that freeze frame that bodes well.

I got about two thirds of the way through before I needed to walk away so I didn't start yelling at my computer. I was going to type a long reply about what was wrong and then decided that it was much better to just ignore and distract myself doing something positive and Glasto related (I thoroughly recommend listening to 10 minutes of brave sir robin's playlist as opposed to that video) rather than arguing with people who just don't get it. 

 

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

Just read Scotties post which confirms it is indeed a sexist venue. That's sad.

[Winslow Leach]

2 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I can't watch this just now, I'm afraid, but there's really not much about that freeze frame that bodes well.

I made it halfway through, it's exactly what you'd expect. 

[Winslow Leach]

4 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Just read Scotties post which confirms it is indeed a sexist venue. That's sad.

Well fucking deal with it.

[Spindles]

7 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

I made it halfway through, it's exactly what you'd expect. 

Sits down, spreads legs wide..."Now what you need to understand, darling..."

Got to be honest, I didn't watch, because that's what I expect.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

So all the responses are - the video is male bullshit - without anyone actually watching the video. Lol

 

Edit - I have nothing to deal with as it doesn't really effect me. It just makes me a little sad that Glastonbury is promoting such a sexist venue. I would feel exactly the same if it was a male only tent.

 

Edited June 9, 2016 by The_Amazing_Oblong

[Winslow Leach]

13 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

it doesn't really effect me. 

 

Now you're talking.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

I'm always up for a discussion on current issues, 3rd wave feminism being a particular favourite of mine. I particularly enjoy the well thought out reasoned and researched counter arguments such as ;

"Fucking deal with it"

Edited June 9, 2016 by The_Amazing_Oblong

[CaledonianGonzo]

That moral high ground's built on fairly shaky foundations, bud.

I notice that you haven't engaged with any of the woman posters who've detailed instances of harassment at gigs to tell them why they're the sexists for thinking that this place serves a purpose.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

18 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

That moral high ground's built on fairly shaky foundations, bud.

I notice that you haven't engaged with any of the woman posters who've detailed instances of harassment at gigs to tell them why they're the sexists for thinking that this place serves a purpose.

I have never said these gig goers are sexist I have said the venue itself is sexist. The definition of sexist is discrimination based on gender. The definition for discrimination is making a distinction based on a group a person belongs to (i.e. Male). There is no denying that this is a sexist venue.

I've not checked back in my posts but I can be 100% positive that I have never said I agree with anybody having to be a victim of crime at a social event or anywhere else for that matter.

Edit: If anyone does actually watch the video I wanted to say I don't share his views on therapy.

Edited June 9, 2016 by The_Amazing_Oblong

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

The definition for discrimination is making a distinction based on a group a person belongs to (i.e. Male). There is no denying that this is a sexist venue.

Discrimination and sexism aren't the same thing. The former is usually part of the latter, but discrimination without impact or repercussion - in fact, for positive reasons - isn't some sort of inviolable evil.  See the example of women's shelters.

[Bradders]

Love the "dictionary definition" argument. Very strong.

How can I be racist, Muslims aren't even a race!