Football 2015/16

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Not sure what the fuss is about really. He kept possession well and got about the pitch, but nothing more. Like most Tottenham players he's a bit of a dirty fucker and fully deserved his booking. 

At 22 it's hard to see him pulling up too many trees. I'd say he's far more likely to be a David Thompson than a Steven Gerrard. Heck, Mark Noble had 100 top flight appearances by the time he was Stewart's age. 

I thought he was very decent in the 1st half, tho less so in the 2nd.

And Liverpool haven't been giving kids the opportunities. Sterling had to threaten (Dalglish) to quit to start getting games, Ibe appears to have been a bit luckier, but overall Rodgers preferred to buy loads of new players of about the same quality to play (a few games and then bin), rather than give any of the kids a chance.

(I didn't even know there were some half decent kids at the club until Klopp played them in the cup )

So I'd say it's a bit harsh to write him off cos he's not got games till now, and while nothing about him looked world class and that's nothing of what I'm expecting, nothing about him looked out of place the other night either. More games could have him standing out a bit more, and I'd be interested to see him get more opportunities.

Edited February 11, 2016 by eFestivals

[TheGayTent]

Well if mid table mediocrity is the answer, then perhaps Stewart should be a regular. I guess it's only Henderson he's got to be better than so...

Out of interest, who are these kids you speak of? 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Well if mid table mediocrity is the answer, then perhaps Stewart should be a regular. I guess it's only Henderson he's got to be better than so...

Out of interest, who are these kids you speak of? 

the ones who played against WHU the other night, plus the other ones who got a game in the previous cup matches. They were of varying quality, of course, tho (in general) the better ones played the other night.

And yes, perhaps mid-table mediocrity is about right. They certainly did OK against WHU.

But you don't find out unless they get the games. I reckon Stewart, and Smith*, and perhaps one or two others deserve some more games.

(*and Flanagan too, tho he's less of an unplayed kid, and starting to get games again anyway).

[TheGayTent]

Flanagan is 23. Smith is 21. Teixeira, Ilori and Stewart are 22. Ibe is 20. 

Chirivella was the one you could label a kid (IMO) that played the other night. 

Yeah they did OK - certainly better than the adults did earlier in the season...

[pink_triangle]

58 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

YHmmm, I'm not sure.

Walking out makes clear you're prepared to miss the game, and it showed that it worked.

Compare and contrast with wearing Norwich scarves.

Has there ever been a worse protest than the scarf one?

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Flanagan is 23. Smith is 21. Teixeira, Ilori and Stewart are 22. Ibe is 20. 

Chirivella was the one you could label a kid (IMO) that played the other night. 

Yeah they did OK - certainly better than the adults did earlier in the season...

Flanagan is just coming back from nearly 2 years out injured - and where he'd just about secured himself a first team position before he was injured ... and I made clear I wasn't really counting him as a kid or a rookie.

For the others, I should really have said 'rookies' and not 'kids', i guess.

Very few of them have been given a real chance until now. And as you say, they did OK.

Which is why I'm saying they should have another chance.

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Has there ever been a worse protest than the scarf one?

don't think so.

But the fact the nature of the protest was "we're going to keep paying the prices", it was never likely to be an effective protest against prices.

If you're going to be unwilling to pay the prices it means you'll be willing to miss the game - and the protest the other day showed those fans as being prepared to miss the game.

[TheGayTent]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

For the others, I should really have said 'rookies' and not 'kids', i guess.

Very few of them have been given a real chance until now. And as you say, they did OK.

Fair enough. 

When would you play them though? The League Cup final? Europa League? Premier League? 

When do you think Klopp will play them?

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

When would you play them though? The League Cup final? Europa League? Premier League? 

I'd use them for (some) Prem games thru the rest of the season, to find out more about their 1st team potential.

After all it's pretty much a write off in the Prem now, and there's bound to be a significant clear out in the summer as Klopp builds his own team. Now's the best time to find the prime candidates for that clear-out.

 

19 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

When do you think Klopp will play them?

That one's more difficult to answer.

We don't know what he's been tasked with by the club, or what promises he might have given them.

I also don't feel I know enough about how he does things to know how much of a chance he might be prepared to give them.

 

[TheGayTent]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

That one's more difficult to answer.

We don't know what he's been tasked with by the club, or what promises he might have given them.

I also don't feel I know enough about how he does things to know how much of a chance he might be prepared to give them.

 

I think his record at Dortmund shows if he doesn't pick youth it's because he doesn't think they're good enough

[eFestivals]

32 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I think his record at Dortmund shows if he doesn't pick youth it's because he doesn't think they're good enough

I'd say he's probably not had a chance to consider whether they're good enough til about now, and it's difficult to know if he'd have gone the same with the rookies in the cup if there hadn't been a big injury crisis with the normal first-teamers.

It'll be interesting to see if any get any further chances from now cos I reckon some deserve some playing time ... tho if he's guaranteed finishing high enough to get Europa league, I wouldn't be surprised for them to get no chances, to go with the less risky bet of the normal first teamers.

What i'm getting at behind this is if some were given the game time, some of the 'established' names might come under threat. I thought you'd be liking that possibility.

[TheGayTent]

Why?

[eFestivals]

28 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Why?

why to what bit?

[TheGayTent]

36 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What i'm getting at behind this is if some were given the game time, some of the 'established' names might come under threat. I thought you'd be liking that possibility.

I was referring to this bit

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I was referring to this bit

you took a pop at henderson back up the back.

[TheGayTent]

41 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you took a pop at henderson back up the back.

Did I? 

He's just not very good is he? 

If we ignore ancient history when Liverpool were great and just look at recent history - I.e. from the turn of the decade Liverpool have finished 7th, 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, and 6th. They currently sit 9th.

Those finishes (the freakish Suarez season aside) are a result of having pretty mediocre players. Jordan Henderson typifies this no? Obviously he's good, but he would be lucky to be on the bench at most of the club's above Liverpool in the table right? Mignolet isn't as good as West Ham's 2nd keeper - that should be embarrassing for a club of Liverpool's standing. 

Now I'm quite happy if Liverpool don't improve, but if they are to, they need to be replacing the likes of Henderson with better players. Maybe Stewart or some other 'rookies' are better?  Maybe they're not. 

It'll be interesting to see what Klopp does in the summer. 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

He's just not very good is he?

II can't make up mind about him. He's not played much this season, and he's playing injured.

Whether he'd be good enough with other better players around him and heading for the top of the league I'm not sure, but he doesn't particularly look out of his depth amongst the players alongside him, apart from perhaps with his lack of goal scoring.(tho that's a problem most of them have).

At the same time, if he was one that Klopp decoded to move on, I wouldn't be surprised. It'll be at least some of the players around the same performance, that's for sure.

If I were manager, there's not many I'd go out of my way to try to keep. Coutinho is about the only bright spark in the regular first teamers.

Most of the rest are much of a muchness, and while you could keep some of those to play within an improved-overall team, I wouldn't want to keep more than a few.

Coutinho. I'd try and keep Sturridge, cos despite being sicknote, he's proper quality. I'd give Origi more of a go, and I'd give Ings another chance once he's fit. Maybe even Flanagan, as he was playing great before getting injured. But if the rest left, bye-bye.

[pink_triangle]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

II can't make up mind about him. He's not played much this season, and he's playing injured.

Whether he'd be good enough with other better players around him and heading for the top of the league I'm not sure, but he doesn't particularly look out of his depth amongst the players alongside him, apart from perhaps with his lack of goal scoring.(tho that's a problem most of them have).

 

I agree he doesn't look out of his depth and is a perfectly adequate squad player, however Liverpool seem to think of him as key midfielder and captain and I think at that level he is a little short.  I see him as  Nicky Butt, Darren Fletcher type level player which isn't a criticism as both have had successful careers.  However as TGT rightfully states he wouldn't be knocking on the door of any of the teams who are regularly fighting for the top 4 positions.

 

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

 

If I were manager, there's not many I'd go out of my way to try to keep. Coutinho is about the only bright spark in the regular first teamers.

Most of the rest are much of a muchness, and while you could keep some of those to play within an improved-overall team, I wouldn't want to keep more than a few.

I think I see it in a similar way.  The majority of the players are okish squad players, but there aren't enough at the level above.   Most could stay and do a job, or leave and not be missed.  I think it will depend what offers are on the table from other clubs.  I personally think Firminio is worth persevering with.  He is inconsistent, but at least looks like he has the talent to be a bit more.

[pink_triangle]

Johnson sacked by Sunderland.  While I suspect they are happy to have him off the wage bill, I honestly believe that they would have done the same if he was in the middle of an amazing season.  The rumours seem to suggest that Sunderland had no knowledge about the guilty plea until yesterday.

[TheGayTent]

Sunderland have sacked Johnson then

[zahidf]

well he admitted to grooming an undeagw girl on the internet and snogging and touching her up. he will be very lucky not to go to jail.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

However as TGT rightfully states he wouldn't be knocking on the door of any of the teams who are regularly fighting for the top 4 positions.

and let's just ignore how fergie felt the need to slag him off because Henderson snubbed him.

 

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think I see it in a similar way.  The majority of the players are okish squad players, but there aren't enough at the level above.   Most could stay and do a job, or leave and not be missed.  I think it will depend what offers are on the table from other clubs.  I personally think Firminio is worth persevering with.  He is inconsistent, but at least looks like he has the talent to be a bit more.

yep, the bit you've said that you've bolded was what I was getting at.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Johnson sacked by Sunderland.  While I suspect they are happy to have him off the wage bill, I honestly believe that they would have done the same if he was in the middle of an amazing season.  The rumours seem to suggest that Sunderland had no knowledge about the guilty plea until yesterday.

yeah, my impression is that he's been sacked for telling the club he wasn't guilty but then pleaded guilty, rather than for any other specific reason.

 

[DomDom1984]

He's been sacked because he's guilty. Not because of not saying or whatever. He's guilty of grooming and sexual activity with a minor. Sunderland won't want to touch him now and neither will most clubs.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, DomDom1984 said:

He's been sacked because he's guilty. Not because of not saying or whatever. He's guilty of grooming and sexual activity with a minor. Sunderland won't want to touch him now and neither will most clubs.

yeah. reading the prosecution case, she was a fan of the club, first met him at the football club,she told him over facebook she was 15, and this was before the sexual activity.

 

i go with my earlier assessment. the nonce deserves jail time 

Edited February 12, 2016 by zahidf