Younger but more arrogant crowd this year?

[Winslow Leach]

Why are they false equivalencies? Do you believe that genuine nuns would like to see a dressed up pregnant nun on his or her way to a fancy dress party. Why would that genuine nun's feelings be any different to that of an American Indian?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe that nuns are an ethnicity or culture, or that they have ever faced any form of cultural oppression or have a history of colonialist rule.

That's why I say you are using false equivalencies.

[russycarps]

You stop at the point where someone has expressed offence. You could say the same about any sexism or homophobia etc. Its not pc gorn mad if people are actually offended but haven't had a voice or weren't listened to before.

To denigrate concerns is just another form of cultural putdown, i.e. you have so little power that I deny you the right to be offended, get over yourselves and stop being so prickly.

Nailed it.

It's really easy not to wear headdresses, so why would anyone do so in the knowledge they are causing offence? It's just plain obnoxious.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe that nuns are an ethnicity or culture, or that they have ever faced any form of cultural oppression or have a history of colonialist rule.

That's why I say you are using false equivalencies.

You seem to be implying that having an ethnicity or culture gives you a greater right to be offended than having a religion.

On another note nuns etc were persecuted historically - look up Cromwell and his merry men. Or doesn't that count because it was longer ago than when the native American Indians were persecuted?

If that isn't modern enough for you then let's move on to the nuns colonialist governance in southern Ireland by the British government. That's way more recent than the colonialist rule over native American Indians.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Yoghurt on a Stick

[Winslow Leach]

You seem to be implying that having an ethnicity or culture gives you a greater right to be offended than having a religion.

On another note nuns etc were persecuted historically - look up Cromwell and his merry men. Or doesn't that count because it was longer ago than when the native American Indians were persecuted?

If that isn't modern enough for you then let's move on to the nuns colonialist governance in southern Ireland by the British government. That's way more recent than the colonialist rule over native American Indians.

I'm not even going to bother pointing out every fallacy in your line of argument, you're clearly too determined to defend what you see as your given right to be obnoxious and offensive from the fun sucking PC gawn mad brigade.

Russy and giantkatestacks both put it better and more succinct than I could, if you still don't agree then I think we're never going to see eye to eye on this.

[russycarps]

If wearing a nuns habit is offensive, I won't do it. If 'blacking up' is offensive I won't do that either etc etc. My life is not affected a jot, but I will have prevented someone else being upset.

That's just good manners isn't it?

[Winslow Leach]

If wearing a nuns habit is offensive, I won't do it. If 'blacking up' is offensive I won't do that either etc etc. My life is not affected a jot, but I will have prevented someone else being upset.

That's just good manners isn't it?

Apparently some people feel that good manners are impinging on their freedom.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I'm not even going to bother pointing out every fallacy in your line of argument, you're clearly too determined to defend what you see as your given right to be obnoxious and offensive from the fun sucking PC gawn mad brigade.

If you are not going to justify your fallacy argument then please do explain where I have been obnoxious and offensive? Those are mighty powerful words to use and ones in which, I myself, find obnoxious and offensive. I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain why I think that, but do feel you need to justify your use of them.

[Winslow Leach]

If you are not going to justify your fallacy argument then please do explain where I have been obnoxious and offensive? Those are mighty powerful words to use and ones in which, I myself, find obnoxious and offensive. I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain why I think that, but do feel you need to justify your use of them.

I'd be happy to explain. I'd be happy to explain that I never called you obnoxious or accused you of doing anything offensive. I'd be happy to point out that I said that I found the act of cultural appropriation you were defending to be obnoxious and offensive.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

If wearing a nuns habit is offensive, I won't do it. If 'blacking up' is offensive I won't do that either etc etc. My life is not affected a jot, but I will have prevented someone else being upset.

That's just good manners isn't it?

Contrary to Winslow Leach's perception of me, I entirely agree with you. I wouldn't dream of offending anybody. It's not within my central core of being or upbringing to do so. The point I'm trying to put across is where does one draw the line in this area? How can you draw a line etc? I don't give a bollocks about someone dressing up as a nun and suspect the majority of people don't either, but if only one nun in the world does give a bollocks do we tend to their needs or cater to the majority?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

you're clearly too determined to defend what you see as your given right to be obnoxious and offensive

What part of that isn't telling me I'm obnoxious and offensive?

[Winslow Leach]

What part of that isn't telling me I'm obnoxious and offensive?

Unless you're currently wearing a bindi while typing this, then no part of it.( I know it's gone wildly off topic, but this conversation was about bindis at one point.)

I've already said we should let this whole thing die, it's just depressing now.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Unless you're currently wearing a bindi while typing this

Well, that's lightened up the mood anyway.

I've already said we should let this whole thing die, it's just depressing now.

I agree it is all a bit negative. I'll just say one thing though - the intentions of my posts were a bit devils advocate rather than expressing my own opinion. I just wanted / aimed to highlight areas which weren't being taken into consideration.

Oh, and I'm not with the PC gawn mad brigade. It may be a bit autistic of me but I like these other areas to be exposed too.

Anyway, peace and love.

Yog

[russycarps]

Contrary to Winslow Leach's perception of me, I entirely agree with you. I wouldn't dream of offending anybody. It's not within my central core of being or upbringing to do so. The point I'm trying to put across is where does one draw the line in this area? How can you draw a line etc? I don't give a bollocks about someone dressing up as a nun and suspect the majority of people don't either, but if only one nun in the world does give a bollocks do we tend to their needs or cater to the majority?

Well it's up to you to draw your own lines.

I just take it on a case by case basis and make a judgement based on common sense. If I can sort of see where they are coming from, I'll respect their view. I can understand the headdress thing, same if nuns were offended about wearing a habit (even though I think religion is bonkers of course).

Edited August 1, 2014 by russycarps

[Winslow Leach]

Well, that's lightened up the mood anyway.

I agree it is all a bit negative. I'll just say one thing though - the intentions of my posts were a bit devils advocate rather than expressing my own opinion. I just wanted / aimed to highlight areas which weren't being taken into consideration.

Oh, and I'm not with the PC gawn mad brigade. It may be a bit autistic of me but I like these other areas to be exposed too.

Anyway, peace and love.

Yog

I think maybe we got our wires crossed. I come across too many people refusing to consider that maybe they should think about things a bit more, and I think it's damaged the part of my brain that deals with patience. I still don't agree with the point you were raising, but I accept that you were just making sure it was considered fairly.

Now let's get out of here, before someone starts on about Prince again, then there'll be no hope for any of us.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Winslow Leach

[Ruwise]

[post=http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/09/cultural-exchange-and-cultural-appropriation/?upw]Interesting article

As we have come round to the topic of cultural appropriation again. Here is an interesting article on it. It is in all honesty a bit of a minefield. I do think some people are over sensitive about some things. I think some people see offence when actually white people are adopting something out of admiration but I suppose it is just a case of looking at things on a case by case basis and trying to understand things from another persons perspective.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Interesting thread! I'm a well lapsed catholic. My dad once made my friend a nun's habit as school fancy dress and the sisters of mercy who taught us found it hilarious... On the other hand I still get a twitch when i see slebs wearing rosaries round their necks as jewellery. It's meant for prayer not decoration and making a mockery of it still makes me uncomfortable.

I am also a well lapsed Catholic, having had the religion force fed to me for many a year. One of my mates dressed up as a pregnant nun at Bestival one year. I was momentarily unsettled by it, but soon stopped fearing for his soul when I thought about it further.

I'm much more of a Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence type of person nowadays.

[UEF]

[progue]

People shouldn't attach themselves so deeply to daft hats and facial decorations. The fact that they do so is their own problem.

[frostypaw]

People shouldn't attach themselves so deeply to daft hats and facial decorations. The fact that they do so is their own problem.

Yeah like those idiots worrying about swastikas right? it's just a pattern. Their problem that they're bothered

Bit of a silly stance fella. Doesn't translate just cos you don't see what the problem is.

[progue]

Yeah like those idiots worrying about swastikas right? it's just a pattern. Their problem that they're bothered

Bit of a silly stance fella. Doesn't translate just cos you don't see what the problem is.

It's just one opinion in many...To me, getting all hot under the collar about stuff like that is silly...

[frostypaw]

It's just one opinion in many...To me, getting all hot under the collar about stuff like that is silly...

Kinda agree! But quite like being around other people too I can easily live without those things. There's other stuff I'd be more militant about tho

[progue]

I once wore an Indian Head Dress, when I was about 5 years old I also had a bow and arrow.

I also dressed up as a cowboy, a soldier, a policeman and an astronaut.

I've never worn one as an adult and most likely wouldn't....Mainly because I think they look daft really.

My daughter's have worn what might loosely be described as a bindi or at least decorated their faces with stick on jewellery some of which might end up stuck on the forehead region. I won't be stopping them any time soon and I really wouldn't want to cause them any distress by the suggestion that some nutjob might take issue with it.

Edited August 4, 2014 by progue

[CaledonianGonzo]

"nutjob"

[LondonTom]

I really wouldn't want to cause them any distress by the suggestion that some nutjob might take issue with it.

Do you just have to disagree with everything? No one is being a "nutjob" about anything, just pointing out that a group who are still rather oppressed are finding something fairly offensive that most people could go without doing. Its consideration for others.

That and the fact the trend seems to have become bigger because Native Americans/Indians have been in the news a fair bit saying how they find it offensive....

[ICGenie]

Yeah like those idiots worrying about swastikas right? it's just a pattern. Their problem that they're bothered

Bit of a silly stance fella. Doesn't translate just cos you don't see what the problem is.

Ah now, the swastika is indeed an interesting one. That definitely IS a case of people taking a symbol (which has it's roots in Sanskrit and means "well-being") and changing it's meaning to something much less palatable for many. I think there are moves to start to reclaim it but I suspect that is a long road.