The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

nothing there to address the point he made, about the yes rhetoric that claimed all criticism was "bullying", "lies", and "Project Fear".

It's now Project Fact. Can yes-ers face the facts? By the reply above, no they can't.

I was " addressing " the point MB made about his mate changing sides ( the clue was in the fact that I opened it with " thanks mb " ). I said I thought that he was in the minority going from YES to NO. Turns out he is / was. Both YES and the SNP are still carrying the momentum after losing the Indy Ref. but still no-one on here on the NO side can lay any blame for this on Labour ?

Who came up with the team name " Project Fear " ?

The oil price is down the shitter and the GE polls show the SNP on the March. The out of touch folks who claimed it was all about greed and oil must be feeling a little foolish

Edited February 4, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[Comfy Bean]

From an article in the Times about Ashcroft's latest poll. He looked at the 25 seat that either voted YES or were very tight - 24 would go to the SNP.

I remember with great sadness when, during the heat of the Indy campaign, Neil championed Danny Alexander

IF.......he were to lose his seat surely we can ( nearly ) all agree that Scotland has delivered a good thing for all the UK. Remember his vow

[kaosmark2]

The comparison was salmond and Alexander. That's like choosing between rubella and measles, when in actuality you should get vaccinated.

[Comfy Bean]

As it pain me to say, however bad Milliband is, I think if Labour support holds in Scotland, then the Tories have no chance.

If Labour hold any kind of decent support in England then your guys will be out on their arse. We only sent down 6 ( six ) SNP MP`s last time round. Always worth remembering that

[Comfy Bean]

he also only polled 25 people in each seat - which doesn't count as anything statistically meaningful.

That's not saying it's wrong, but it's not a good enough piece of work to treat as right.

Maybe Jimbo thinks it was only 25 as well. He has " just got a sense that people are on a journey back towards us ".

He thinks that wearing a retro Scotland tap and sipping from a can of Bru is all we need here. Oh and his one line about vote thingy get Dave.

[Comfy Bean]

If Labour and Tories are 'both the same', why do the SNP say they'd agree to a coalition with one but not the other?

As I`ve said before MB, I dont think NS is interested in a coalition with either. The 100% crystal clear no deal with the Tories was laid down from the start. The deal with Labour being tied to an end to Trident means that Labour can`t / won`t be able to enter a " proper " coalition. It was a good card to play as a lot of Scottish Labour voters don`t want to renew Trident, who does ?

It is a good play against the only line Jimbo seems to have about vote snp get Dave. NS is showing the Labour voters another option. In fairness Jim also was into being against fracking for........ 2 days.

[Comfy Bean]

Tories are the largest party over labour by about 5 seats. Lib dems retain 35-40 mps. Lib dems prop up tories to a majority. Simple

KM, this is pretty much how I see it. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the Greens down your way. Just for fun, how many of these Lib Dem seats ( 35-40 ) do you think will come from Scotland and how many Toy MP`s are you expecting to be sent down by us Jocks. I know it is a general election but I`m interested in how many you are including in your numbers ( above ).

Will you atleast be pleased if we hunt that cretin D. Alexander ?

[kaosmark2]

KM, this is pretty much how I see it. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the Greens down your way. Just for fun, how many of these Lib Dem seats ( 35-40 ) do you think will come from Scotland and how many Toy MP`s are you expecting to be sent down by us Jocks. I know it is a general election but I`m interested in how many you are including in your numbers ( above ).

Will you atleast be pleased if we hunt that cretin D. Alexander ?

5 from Scotland. I think they'll lose more in England than Scotland.

Alexander isn't the biggest target imo. Be great if he goes but I'd prefer Clegg to go. (of vulnerable seats, gove, Cameron, may, Gideon would prefer obviously be the ideal).

[Comfy Bean]

The comparison was salmond and Alexander. That's like choosing between rubella and measles, when in actuality you should get vaccinated.

I know mate. I remember. I accept that not everyone shares my view on Alexander and Neil will be along in a while to have his say but what is your view on Danny boy ?

I think Neil would prefer pretty much anyone alive or dead over Salmond. Another highlight of this thread was the business about him dying a failure

Would imagine Salmond has got a cigar on as I speak. He said the dream would never die. Momentum still on the up, even after defeat.

While I remember, read today that the only corners of the UK that favour being in Europe are Scotland and London. I think I`m right in saying that London also don`t vote Tory. Anyone know if this is true and if so why ? Don`t feel so bad about paying towards their fancy train sets now

[kaosmark2]

I know mate. I remember. I accept that not everyone shares my view on Alexander and Neil will be along in a while to have his say but what is your view on Danny boy ?

I think Neil would prefer pretty much anyone alive or dead over Salmond. Another highlight of this thread was the business about him dying a failure

Would imagine Salmond has got a cigar on as I speak. He said the dream would never die. Momentum still on the up, even after defeat.

While I remember, read today that the only corners of the UK that favour being in Europe are Scotland and London. I think I`m right in saying that London also don`t vote Tory. Anyone know if this is true and if so why ? Don`t feel so bad about paying towards their fancy train sets now

One of the more despicable traitors, but others more culpable. Clegg and farron have more guilt over the direction of Lib dems since Kennedy.

Depends on how you define a corner. Lots of cities are pro - Europe and anti -Tory, its those c**ts in the English countryside that vote for them. London is just the biggest example of that.

[Comfy Bean]

5 from Scotland. I think they'll lose more in England than Scotland.

Alexander isn't the biggest target imo. Be great if he goes but I'd prefer Clegg to go. (of vulnerable seats, gove, Cameron, may, Gideon would prefer obviously be the ideal).

Fair enough. I admit my feelings towards Alexander are perhaps unhealthy . Their " vow " was a shocker and I still remember him on the box announcing cuts and changes to pensions and getting all smug and aggressive when questioned about it. He`s not fit for office in my opinion.

[Comfy Bean]

One of the more despicable traitors, but others more culpable. Clegg and farron have more guilt over the direction of Lib dems since Kennedy.

Depends on how you define a corner. Lots of cities are pro - Europe and anti -Tory, its those c**ts in the English countryside that vote for them. London is just the biggest example of that.

Yeah corners maybe not the right word. Any EU referendum could re-ignite the Scottish Indy vote......if that were needed.

[MichaelsBeard]

I think I`m right in saying that London also don`t vote Tory. Anyone know if this is true and if so why ? Don`t feel so bad about paying towards their fancy train sets now

There have been 18 general elections since 1945. Scotland got the party it voted for 12 times. The south of England has got it 9 times. That's democracy for you!

'Fancy train sets maybe' but there's areas of London among the very worst for social deprivation.

[kaosmark2]

Fair enough. I admit my feelings towards Alexander are perhaps unhealthy . Their " vow " was a shocker and I still remember him on the box announcing cuts and changes to pensions and getting all smug and aggressive when questioned about it. He`s not fit for office in my opinion.

Gideon, who has gone on record as saying his primary goal in politics is to cut inheritance tax ASAP (presumably before his parents cop it). Fit for office?

Gove, spent a few years before his time as a MP writing angry editorials for the times about how he shouldn't have to pay for anyone else's education. Fit for office?

Jeremy hunt, believes homeopathy is a higher priority and more deserving of NHS funding than mental health. Fit for office?

I don't disagree with your criticism of Alexander, but he's still not as bad as the tories themselves. On a political, personal, or basic sense of going into politics for any reason that isn't utterly self-serving. Even Cameron is better than the twats surrounding him in the Tory front benches.

[kaosmark2]

Yeah corners maybe not the right word. Any EU referendum could re-ignite the Scottish Indy vote......if that were needed.

I *think* sense would prevail in a eu referendum. If it didn't, I would leave the country.

[eFestivals]

Fixed it for you Neil.

I suggest you look up what "full fiscal autonomy" means, and then try and reconcile that idea with Sctland's fiscal inputs and bigger spending - as stated in GERS.

Care to tell me what's getting cut by the SNP? Or is that a secret?

Edited February 5, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Because they don't

I refer you to the SNP's demand for "full fiscal autonomy", and I refer you to the bigger deficit in Scotland as stated in GERS.

If you can't see that means bigger cuts than the tories, you need both a basic maths lesson and a political compass.

But hey, you're voting this onto yourself, so the English can just sit back and laugh at the daftness of it all.

[eFestivals]

I can see how it COULD happen. It just doesn't seems pretty unlikely the way things are looking at the moment.

I refer you to approximately half of the opinion polls published in the last month, which say it's likely.

The problem with your argument is that the only two parties likely to have the numbers to do so are the SNP & Labour.

No UK party can do a deal with a separatist party and then still be a UK party, or any party at all.

You've smugly been (prematurely) celebrating Labour's death in Scotland. Labour aren't stupid enough to have the SNP kill them off in England too, but if it happens it's tory rule for Scotland for ever.

It'll be like Scotland has punched itself in the face.

The SNP have categorically ruled out any deal with the Tories

well of course. Nationalists need an 'other' to hate. It's how they work. UKIP have Brussels, the SNP have Westminster.

Nationalists also need that hate figure to have power tho - the part that's absent from your thinking, and why the SNP are happy to support the bedroom tax, for example, and why the SNP *WANT* **YOU** to create a tory govt.

Vote SNP, vote i've-got-no-political-nouce.

Edited February 5, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Tell you what, I'll take my chances

well, that's a start.

At least you're waking up to the fact that "vote SNP get tory" is what you'll be doing.

You'll find the following five years harder to stomach than you're finding my words to be.

[LJS]

[LJS]

well, that's a start.

At least you're waking up to the fact that "vote SNP get tory" is what you'll be doing.

You'll find the following five years harder to stomach than you're finding my words to be.

No I haven't, & neither have I said I'll be voting Snp. I shall not be voting Labour though but not for the reasons you always assume.

[eFestivals]

I generally don't reply to your magic money tree (is this where the squirrels live?) nonsense because as you should be well aware I have never ever claimed that Scotland would automatically be more prosperous under independence and indeed have accepted that some of the yes campaign's financial projections were a tad on the optimistic side.

but then when the SNP demand "full fiscal autonomy" all of that recognition vanishes from your head.

I am glad to note that you finally came up with some figures after many challenges from me

Oh FFS - they're the same figures (Alex's figures!) i've give you at least five times before.

Ok so 5.9% plays 5.8%

:lol: - even when the words are right there in front of you, you're brain doesn't kick in.

Why do you think Scotland is still getting £6Bn in oil revenues? It's getting fuck all, and the difference is 10% of Scottish spending.

That means an extra 10% of cuts!!!

Bearing in mind I have never claimed Scotland would have been better off & acknowledged we might even have been a wee bit worse off, I'll take that as evidence in favour of my stupidity.

corrected for you.

I'm really trying not to insult you, but if you can't think when the info is in front of you, you cannot think at all.

Oh look, for the most recent 4 years on your graph Scotland has a smaller deficit than rUK

oh look, Scotland had decent oil revcenues for a few years.

17 years of 23 Scotland ran a bigger deficit. In the years nearest to us not on that graph (2012-13, 2013-14, 2014-15), Scotland ran a bigger deficit.

But just look at the good years, yeah, cos they're the only ones that count? FFS.

"Full fiscal autonomy" = bigger cuts than the tories for Scotland.

Only an economic ignoramus could miss it.

so, Neil, it is now plain to see why you were so reluctant to post the figures I asked for so often because they simply don't support your argument.

PMSL.

You might as well be sat there waving a flag saying "my brain doesn't work".

Edited February 5, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Scottish Labour's campaign now appears to be run by Neil

nope, just by people not so self-obsessed that they're able to see the bigger picture.

You're in denial that Scotland voting SNP could have the tories ruling over Scotland by Scotland's choice.

You're in denial of what "full fiscal autonomy" means for Scotland.

You're in denial of Scotland's economic position.

What you need is the SNP to get their wishes. Only the self-inflicted pain of your head-in-the-sand act will get your head out of that sand.

[eFestivals]

The out of touch folks who claimed it was all about greed and oil must be feeling a little foolish

when so very few like you can recognise the truth of your choice, it's still about greed and oil.

Only when those who'll vote SNP recognise Scotland's economic reality does it stop being about greed and oil.

[eFestivals]

No I haven't, & neither have I said I'll be voting Snp. I shall not be voting Labour though but not for the reasons you always assume.

so you're "not voting Labour" is a full 100% endorsement of "I'll vote not-Labour and get a tory govt"?

Or are you voting not-Labour in support of a Labour govt, to outline a few things about you?