Football 2011-2012

[ralph250]

Neil 3:22 to 3:24. his second foot doesn't catch Suarez and isn't in any way pointing at the player. It's tucked behind him; his shin, top of his ankle might tap him but its the knee of the leading foot that puts Suarez into his Elias pose. He extends his trailing leg after playing the ball, but his foot is out of the way, and always going to extend slightly as not wanting to jar or catch your knee on the turf.

Pic 2 is as high as his foot goes. It's pretty much point of contact and comes down immediately after playing the ball.

Agree, it can be deemed a foul, but wasn't in any way a red imo.

http://www.101greatg...-motd-15494150/

edit: regards as high as foot goes, was looking from point of view of ball making contact. Sorry was reading it from point of view of his trailing leg catching as thats what you put in your initial post. His leading leg does raise again slightly (and indeed catches Suarez's foot slightly), but think thats more a result of the knee catching.

Edited October 3, 2011 by ralph250

[ralph250]

absolutely, they would - but they'd simply move a Wigan-type out of the league, and drop another team into that Wigan-ish 'fight for survival' position.

Would it improve the Prem or cause there to be much more interest in the Prem? Nope, I don't think so.

[eFestivals]

Neil 3:22 to 3:24. his second foot doesn't catch Suarez and isn't in any way pointing at the player.

it certainly looks to me like he caught it. (I'm talking about Rodwell's left hitting Suarez's left a moment after the right leg impacts).

I accept that he might not and it might have been Suarez 'jumping' his foot out of the way of some expected impact, but it was very close if there was no contact.

It's tucked behind him;

no, his left leg is not.

Pic 2 is as high as his foot goes.

You need glasses matey. Seriously, if you can't see the left leg stuff, you need glasses. It's at least 6" off the ground, with studs up.

[eFestivals]

That's not what anyones arguing about though.

it was certainly the starting point of this discussion about Rangers & Celtic. I know it was, as I started it.

The Hedge just posited that they'd have the capacity to do well,

I don't think that's beyond doubt.

and I contended the assertion that gate receipts weren't relevant/that they wouldn't be able to do more than Wigan.

that was never any part of what I said. I said they'd bring nothing extra to the Prem above the likes of Wigan.

The money is only a part of it becauswe McCoist reckon's money will swing it for them - yet I can't see how the money in the Prem (not the individual money of the one club coming in over the club going out) would be much changed.

[5co77ie]

The only reason you think that so solidly is because you have had a view that wasn't available to the ref at the time.

There was more than enough about it at first view to look like it might have deserved a red.

Edited October 3, 2011 by 5co77ie

[ralph250]

it certainly looks to me like he caught it. (I'm talking about Rodwell's left hitting Suarez's left a moment after the right leg impacts).

I accept that he might not and it might have been Suarez 'jumping' his foot out of the way of some expected impact, but it was very close if there was no contact.

no, his left leg is not.

You need glasses matey. Seriously, if you can't see the left leg stuff, you need glasses. It's at least 6" off the ground, with studs up.

[eFestivals]

He was right in front of the incident

he was, in about the same position as the two liverpool players who reacted as tho it was a straight red tackle.

I'm not suggesting it was a straight red tackle, but it clearly looked as tho it was to all three of the people nearest to it.

[Wooderson]

It was a poor decision by the ref who had a terrible game in general. Wrecked the contest completely and made the victory feel quite hollow.

Everton's "fans" didnt do their club any favours with their throwing of shite at the end of the game. Sly fuckers looking for a reaction from Bellamy with their phones at the ready. Really good advert for the game Blues! Well done! Good that neither Suarez nor CB reacted though. Both of them are hardly the most sang-froid players around...

[eFestivals]

As said, think its more the force of contact with his knee which has pushed his leg back/up.

oh, absolutely - for the right legs of both.

But that, along with what went on with the left legs - which took both of Suarez's legs from under him - gave the whole incident the look of a two footed lunge from some angles.

If you miss the fact of Rodwell hooking the ball away so cleanly with his right - quite easy to do without replays - then the whole thing starts to take on the look of a nasty challenge ... as proven by the fact that the three people nearest to it thought it was.

As I've said, I'm not trying to say that the ref got it right - he defo didn't - but I can see how he got it wrong. Refs will make worse wrong calls than that one almost every weekend.

[The Nal]

The only reason you think that so solidly is because you have had a view that wasn't available to the ref at the time.

[ralph250]

it was certainly the starting point of this discussion about Rangers & Celtic. I know it was, as I started it.

------------

that was never any part of what I said. I said they'd bring nothing extra to the Prem above the likes of Wigan.

------------

The money is only a part of it becauswe McCoist reckon's money will swing it for them - yet I can't see how the money in the Prem (not the individual money of the one club coming in over the club going out) would be much changed.

[eFestivals]

The ref was right beside it.

and two liverpool players were no further away.

Players don't give the sort of instinctive reaction they did if they're not believing it was a dreadful challenge (tho they of course got it as wrong as the ref did). Their reactions were too quick to be contrived.

If Suarez didn't do his standard dive (grab the leg with one hand, roll into a ball with the other hand waving up in the air) it wouldn't have even been a foul. The ref got duped. simple as that.

oh do fuck off.

1. Suarez couldn't have remained standing - Rodwell took both of his legs away. And one of those was a very hard clatter at speed into his main standing leg at the time.

2. the ref was putting his hand into his pocket for a red long before anything Suarez was doing might have affected his decision.

Suarez might have played it up, it's quite possible that he did. But he'd still been got on both legs, from what looked like a two-feet-up lunge - tho of course the replays get to show it was one of the most skillful 'lunges' you'll ever see.

[eFestivals]

The above was what I was arguing against.

Again, I think you've misunderstood what I was getting at.

Against the other income a club gets from elsewhere, gate money isn't a huge part.

And while the likes of Wigan can be creative in the players they buy, which sees them pick up 'no name' players at a very cheap price and which prove to be great, at the likes of Celtic or Rangers there's an expectation of them buying 'name' players in a lot of what they buy - and those 'name' players cost an awful lot more both in fees and wages, without bringing the extra on the pitch to match that extra in spend. So the extra spending doesn't translate into an as-big advantage.

[The Nal]

and two liverpool players were no further away.

Players don't give the sort of instinctive reaction they did if they're not believing it was a dreadful challenge (tho they of course got it as wrong as the ref did). Their reactions were too quick to be contrived.

Edited October 3, 2011 by The Nal

[ralph250]

I dont think you understood what I meant. I was saying liverpool have 1 true top class player to spurs 0, I suspect you thought I mean spurs had a few and liverpool just 1. Suarez is a player that would interest the top european clubs if he was available. I dont see another player of that calibre at either club. Bale is improving again after going off at the end of last season but he isnt at that level yet.

[the_hedge]

I must admit as a Liverpool fan/admirer I find Suraz quite difficult to watch at times. He's a great player but his cheating is getting a little hard to swallow. Any other Liverpool fans feel the same?

[The Nal]

I must admit as a Liverpool fan/admirer I find Suraz quite difficult to watch at times. He's a great player but his cheating is getting a little hard to swallow. Any other Liverpool fans feel the same?

[eFestivals]

Err..... yes they do. All the time. In every league. Thats like saying Van Der Vaarts goal wasn't handball because the Spurs players celebrated with him.

what, they react like that at every foul do they?

The fact that they don't gets to show that what I say has relevance and that what you say does not.

Very hard clatter?!

was Rodwell moving at speed across the floor at the point his right leg went into Suarez's right leg, or not?

Given that he was moving across the floor at speed, with 12+ stone of weight behind it, it will have hurt.

One leg from a fair one footed tackle.

And you ask if I saw the game? PMSL.

Each of Rodwell's legs take out each of Suarez's legs. Only a blind man could deny that fact.

Edited October 3, 2011 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Hes actually not as bad as he was at Ajax believe it or not. But hes still the worst in the Premier league by some distance.

A crown he's stolen from Nani, who is suddenly much better after 5+ years (or however many it is) of being the biggest cheat and no less of one than Suarez. Pleasingly he's pulled it in some this season by the look of things.

So give Suarez the same leeway to realise we do it different here, eh?

[ralph250]

who thinks hernandez has been found out this season a little bit. defenders now know he just plays on there shoulders and just step up on him, seems to get offside an awful lot this season.

[eFestivals]

so Ralph .... why Lindegaard on Saturday?

Not perhaps that Fergie is getting cold feet over De Gea?

[The Nal]

what, they react like that at every foul do they?

The fact that they don't gets to show that what I say has relevance and that what you say does not.

was Rodwell moving at speed across the floor at the point his right leg went into Suarez's right leg, or not?

Given that he was moving across the floor at speed, with 12+ stone of weight behind it, it will have hurt.

[eFestivals]

Christ Neil. Everyone in the entire world realised it was a silly red card and a fair tackle within seconds of the 2nd replay

corrected for you. And of strong relevance to why the ref did what he did.

But I'm not sure I could say "a fair tackle". It was certainly one of the most skillful tackles I've ever seen (which is a part of why the ref got it wrong), but taking a player out to get the ball - which is what happened - can certainly be a foul.

and also realised that Suarez made a meal out of it. Everyone except you that is. There was a slight bit of contact. He tripped him up, that was it.

Suarez might have made a meal of it - the only way both you or I could know is by knowing the pain that he felt.

That aside, it was NOT "a slight bit of contact". Rodwell went into him with no less force than Cole went into Hernandez a few weeks back, PLUS there was also contact with both of their left feet too - which was studs up onto the ankle (which I remember normally hurts like fuck, even without much force).

Everyone except me. And the ref at the time. And two Liverpool players at the time. And the commentators (I've heard at least two different ones), who weren't shouting 'not a red card' until after the 2nd replay.

Simply not true.

well, the ref isn't a time traveller, so it takes a moment to review the incident in his mind and then reach for his pocket.

But I'm far closer with saying the ref went for his red instantaneously than you are saying it was "a slight bit of contact" when it was in fact two sets of contacts that ensured that Suarez couldn't have stayed on his feet if he'd wanted to.

Edited October 3, 2011 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

But I'm not sure I could say "a fair tackle". It was certainly one of the most skillful tackles I've ever seen (which is a part of why the ref got it wrong), but taking a player out to get the ball - which is what happened - can certainly be a foul.

[eFestivals]

he won the ball first, thats allowed.

not correct. There's no such rule.

He almost passed it from the tackle. I still think Suarez got him sent off. Suarez's history means you cant give him the benefit of the doubt.

then Nani got Carra sent off unfairly too.

So Arsenal, Sagna broke his leg. Bit of a loss.

bit of a weird one that, eh? It didn't look like he came down particularly badly.

Luckily it's just a fracture rather than broken, so he shouldn't be out for as long as might be.

Thought Arsenal were better in parts though.

yeah, me too - before the first goal I was saying that Arsenal were controlling the game even tho they were having less of the possession. But at the same time I was saying that Spurs looked dangerous and more likely to score.

Just think what they'd be if they could actually score, rather than be gifted goals as they're being.