Football 2011-2012

[The Nal]

Messi being accused of racism now:

http://www.dailymail...on-Drenthe.html

[eFestivals]

Messi being accused of racism now:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2141696/Lionel-Messi-race-row-Royston-Drenthe.html

It's much the same as existed around the Suarez thing (with his claims, if nothing more), a cultural difference in use and acceptance - something that Drenthe is at least able to recognise, as his words show...

"I understand that "negro" in South America is very common, but we can not stand it."

A person has the right to be upset about its use, but it's not offensive by default (unlike some other words) tho of course it can be used to insult. As I pointed out around Suarez, the word means 'black'.

"The Argentinean Gabriel Heinze and Gonzalo Higuain said it initially on the training ground ..." - which gets to show that in some cultures it's a commonly used non-offensive word. Messi is of course Argentinian.

In the UK we risk being sucked up our own arses by our approach to different cultural uses of words. Just because the view in this country is that a word is offensive, it doesn't automatically mean that using it is always meant to offend.

[Ed209]

Whatever way you look at the word, if this is true, then being the the worlds greatest footballer doesn't exempt you from being a total dumbass.. The Suarez incident can't have passed him by. He knew the world of shit that Suarez got into, just leave it out of your vocab on a European football pitch.

[jump]

Whatever way you look at the word, if this is true, then being the the worlds greatest footballer doesn't exempt you from being a total dumbass.. The Suarez incident can't have passed him by. He knew the world of shit that Suarez got into, just leave it out of your vocab on a European football pitch.

[The Nal]

"The Argentinean Gabriel Heinze and Gonzalo Higuain said it initially on the training ground, but they were stopped."

Im still amazed that others aren't told the first time they use it. Like first drill in their first training session

[eFestivals]

Not to reignite the Evra/racist c**t ( ) debate, but I'm still in shock how this "negro" thing is still in European football. Such a grey area. Did he mean it and then claim ignorance etc?

It'll never go away, because for some people of some languages there's nothing grey about it. By default it means black, and nothing more.

For Spanish and Portuguese speakers the issues around that word must be a nightmare.

I take that Daily Mail story as an easy attempt to get people reading their doings with a non-story. While I completely get why Drenthe doesn't like being called 'negro', there's a whole other side to what they're labelling default racism.

[Ed209]

It happened last season before that but still he's been in Europe for over 10 years so he must realised it pisses people off by now.

[eFestivals]

He's still an idiot.

Is he? How do you know?

How use of the word is viewed in this country is not the same all over. Even in some English speaking cultures some black people prefer to be known as 'negro' rather than 'black person'.

I'm not trying to say that Messi was right to use it, I'm merely pointing out that it's not necessarily wrong to use it.

[Ed209]

I can't believe you can live in Europe from the age of 12, and 10 years later still not know that the word is unacceptable to some people.

[thetime]

I can't believe you can live in Europe from the age of 12, and 10 years later still not know that the word is unacceptable to some people.

[eFestivals]

I can't believe you can live in Europe from the age of 12, and 10 years later still not know that the word is unacceptable to some people.

It's unacceptable to call someone a bastard, but many of us do it and mean nothing bad when we do so.

Or,...

It's also acceptable to many.

Or,...

In some cultures it's of far less of an insult by default.

Etc, etc, etc.

I'm simply trying to point out that the view we have of the use of that word within our own culture is not applicable in other cultures. The differences in how it might be regarded - from either side of the word's use - can be huge.

I'm not trying to say that Drenthe didn't have a right to feel abused; I'm not trying to defend Messi's use of that word. I'm simply pointing out that the view we have of the word from our own culture cannot be blanket-applied across all other cultures - and particularly those cultures where it's a word that has meaning and use outside of the only-racial connotations that it has with English speakers.

[strummer77]

Oh ed dont start that argument again we had it for about 3 months.

[eFestivals]

Oh ed dont start that argument again we had it for about 3 months.

It's not really the same thing.

Suarez is operating in the UK, and because of that he should adhere to how things work in the UK. While I've always felt that his intention might not have been the default racist that some had wished to label it as, I've never suggested that he should be allowed to work his words in the UK as he might do in his own country.

Messi is operating in Spain, which has a completely different take on things towards race (even when all aspects of what might be a more-racist-overall culture are removed from that).

All i'm trying to point out is that the UK's view of what is and isn't racist shouldn't be pushed onto other cultures as the only correct take there can be on racism.

To do that would be ...erm ... racist.

[thetime]

Heard Kenny saying he thought it had been a good season... LMFAO...

[strummer77]

Heard Kenny saying he thought it had been a good season... LMFAO...

Edited May 9, 2012 by strummer77

[strummer77]

Would 6th and no carling cup be better than say 8th and the carling cup? End result is the same apart from an extra few quid for higher placing.

[kaosmark2]

Winning a cup has to be a better season than qualifying for the Europa any other way. If the target was the Champs Lge, then it's not a good season by any means, as failed to hit it, but 'not a bad season' doesn't seem a ridiculous comment.

They need hefty investment to have a crack at the Champs next season, although that obviously depends what happens this summer and us and Spurs. One or both teams could easily fall off next season.

[lost]

Winning a cup has to be a better season than qualifying for the Europa any other way. If the target was the Champs Lge, then it's not a good season by any means, as failed to hit it, but 'not a bad season' doesn't seem a ridiculous comment.

They need hefty investment to have a crack at the Champs next season, although that obviously depends what happens this summer and us and Spurs. One or both teams could easily fall off next season.

[kaosmark2]

Is that total spend rather than net? If so, I'm sure West Brom's is wrong, as Shane Long cost over £6m

And how much did they spend on getting Friedel and Parker? Surely more than £6mn total? Wasn't Parker £8m?

But yeah, I agree with the point made, particularly as several players seem to be twitching for a move.

[lost]

I was just looking for a link that illustrated my point, now you mention it the amounts dont look 100% spot on though I suppose so many transfers are made up of add on's you can't tell who counts what. Don't think its net as Everton sold Arteta, Yak, Vaughan, Beckford

[thetime]

I dont think spurs will struggle they just need to sell modric and bale for best part of 60m. Did they really need to spend big when they got adebayor on loan, parker on the cheap and friedel for peanuts.

Wished united had them.

[pink_triangle]

I dont think spurs will struggle they just need to sell modric and bale for best part of 60m. Did they really need to spend big when they got adebayor on loan, parker on the cheap and friedel for peanuts.

Wished united had them.

[eFestivals]

Is that total spend rather than net? If so, I'm sure West Brom's is wrong, as Shane Long cost over £6m

I'm pretty sure the Liverpool figure is gross (before the income from sales is deducted), so I'm guessing that they all are (or, at least, meant to be).

Interestingly, if they are gross, then that gets to mean that Man Utd spent more by net amount because Liverpool sold a few reasonably high value players while Utd didn't .... and Utd were of course starting from a far better squad strength position.

Which gets to put a whole new perspective on the idea that Liverpool have spent big and failed dismally. It means that Liverpool falling away from the likes of Utd would be expected rather than it being a huge Liverpool failure.

The exceptional performances against spending from that chart go to Everton, Spurs, & Newc, along with the promoted clubs of Norwich and Swansea.

Talking of spending, there's a piece in today's Guardian which says that City's spending is now just a few quid short of £1Bn.

[The Nal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-n2AR8VIX0

[thetime]

Talking of spending, there's a piece in today's Guardian which says that City's spending is now just a few quid short of £1Bn.